Book Review Friday

I entered into reading this book with a lot of opinions thrown to me from those who have read it. What I learned before I even opened the book is it seemed as though people either loved it or hated it. I have some really close friends who loved the book and thought it was a breath of fresh air, and I also knew some of my friends thought that it's only good was to start a fire with it.

So, because I trusted on both sides, I felt like I could come with no preconceived notions. It was like I heard each debater by themselves but couldn't make a decision until I heard them both at the same time. So, the only way to do this was to read the book. What kind of irritates me is that I landed right in the middle. I can see why people love the book, but I can also see why people hate the book. There are some great discussions in the book but some very bad views on some theology that I feel could hurt those not driven by the word of God for discernment.

Donald Miller is a writer and a poet first, you can see that from the title of the book and in the opening pages. I like poetry when I am reading a poem but find poetry to be distracting when I am trying to read a book. What Mr. Miller does in this writing, in my estimation (although I am no expert) is try and use his poetry skills too much at times as one navigates through his story of redemption. It just isn't for me, that is, his way of writing. But I can get through that, not enough for me to put it down.

The book is really Donald Miller's testimony. It is his writings of how he came to know Christ and how he has grown in Christ, for this it is hard to say, "it is good" or "it is bad." At times, Mr. Miller seems to be scattered in thought and goes from one topic to another without leading the reader to where he is going. But, it is a testimony of what Christ has done for him, and that is much to sing praises about. Miller's book also punches some evangelicals right in the face with some realities of what is going on in today's conservative circles and it sickens not only Mr. Miller, but also myself. I have to say I felt it was worth the read to get a fresh perspective of contemporary Christendom. Mr. Miller brings up a lot of good points, like feeding the homeless, caring for the homosexual and liberals, and loving people yet still telling them the truth of the Gospel. This love, Mr. Miller finds to be happening more in the "pagan" circles than inside the church of the living God and I have to agree. Mr. Miller though does not point fingers but he actually comes to the conclusion that it is HIS fault for this not happening and then asks all who read to understand that it is also their fault for this contemporary slide of hate instead of love for those outside of the body of Christ. I have to say, I like that perspective. Mr. Miller is very honest with his afflictions as a non-believer and a new-believer and I know this makes many people very uncomfortable. But for me, I enjoy when I can be honest with someone and they can be honest with me. It actually helps in prayer to know specifics of someone so that you can be praying for them. This is what Mr. Miller gives us in this novel of his life: An honest testimony of what Christ has done.

What I found to be dangerous are his thoughts on depravity and the atonement of Jesus Christ. He simply says that since he sees people doing good, then he doesn't believe that people are completely evil like some (one of them being me) say. I would have to ask Mr. Miller to trust in the Living Word instead of his eyes. I would ask him to interpret many Scriptures that would point him in the opposite direction, such as: Isaiah 64:6; Jeremiah 17:9; Genesis 6:5;8:21; Romans 3:10-18; Psalm 14; Jeremiah 13:23; Psalm 58:3.

He carries this thought though and it becomes disconnected as he then states the issues of us, including himself, being evil. So his description throughout the book of Christ's atonement and death on the cross becomes one that is to make evil people good. It is a moralistic redemption. This is not the reason Jesus died for our sins, He died to make dead people alive to God. He died to bring His children to His side for God's glory not ours. One of the fruits of a Christian is definitely to do good works and so this is definitely one of the benefits, but is not the primary reason for the atonement. So, this, in my estimation, is a very large error that Mr. Miller makes.

It seems as though Mr. Miller also relies much more on his experience than the unchanging word of God. I don't know this to be true, but this is the way it comes off in my reading of his book. This can be very dangerous, especially in light of knowing our heart is desperately sick, who can discern it...Jeremiah 17:9.

Also, his last chapter on "How to Love Yourself" is a little strong in parts. I do understand that his intent is to understand that God loves us and we need to accept that. I will be careful to say that this is probably a very good chapter, in parts, for those who have had terrible parents or disastrous intamacy issues for whatever horrific reasons, that I cannot empathize with since I myself have never had these kinds of experiences. But there are times in this chapter that go too far in my estimation. The Bible tells us to "die to self" "to deny self" and for what reason? So that we can "live to Christ" and to "follow Christ." So the author would have done better, in my estimation, to balance these understandings.

My recommendation to any who are thinking of picking up this book is to be discerning. I compare it with someone telling their testimony before they are baptized. The story of conversion is wonderful to hear. But, they say those two or three things that make you wince and say, "oohhh...wouldn't have said it that way..." But, that does not ruin the testimony of Christ in their life, and I don't think the errors in this book will ruin Mr. Miller's testimony either. I would recommend it for church leaders needing to understand what errors are creaping in the church as Mr. Miller points out. For the others, if you do read it, please be sure to be discerning when Mr. Miller brings theology and his experiences into the discussion, because I find it to be lacking in many ways. But, be challenged by his words when he calls us to be more loving to those who aren't like us and to understand that the issue is US not THEM. Link to buy

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Biblical Miracles: Part III

Aspects of Miracles

Biblical miracles always, understand this, always accompany God’s message. Now think of the televangelist. No gospel is ever presented, nothing about sin, repentance or surrendering to Christ. What you see with the televangelist is simply the “healing” but for what purpose? It seems to be for the purpose of the individual being healed or the glory of the healer and his/her ministry, not the pursuit of the glory of the gospel.

Look to Elijah.

1 Kings 17

Verse 2: The word of the LORD came to him, saying
Verse 8: Then the word of the LORD came to him, saying
Verse 16: The bowl of flour was not exhausted nor did the jar of oil become empty, according to the word of the LORD which He spoke through Elijah

All to authenticate the word of the Lord.

And to clear it all up, look at verse 24. This is my favorite part of this entire understanding of biblical miracles. It is so clear.

Then the woman said to Elijah, "Now I know that you are a man of God and that the word of the LORD in your mouth is truth."

This is three fold: The man of God is authenticated and the word of the Lord is truth. This is the reason for the miracle. To convert the woman by truth. In verse 12 she says "your God," there is no personal possession of God, but the Lord is Elijah's God not the woman's. Now, in verse 24 she calls the Lord, "THE Lord" showing more of a personal thought to God. Giving God His rightful place. He is no longer "a" god of Elijah, but THE God of all, including herself.

Think about the Paralytic being put through the roof. His sins were forgiven and, oh yeah, he got up and walked. The main emphasis is not on the miracle. The main emphasis is clearly on the forgiveness of sins. It is the thesis, it is the climax. The miracle is just to prove that Christ had the authority to forgive sins, but was not the importance.



We are also shown the same in John 9 where we have the blind man. Why was he healed? Christ tells exactly why… to show the power of God. Notice where man puts the emphasis throughout the entirety of the chapter…on the healing, not on God’s glory being shown.

Therefore in Christ Jesus I have found reason for boasting in things pertaining to God. For I will not presume to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me, resulting in the obedience of the Gentiles by word and deed, in the power of signs and wonders, in the power of the Spirit; so that from Jerusalem and round about as far as Illyricum I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

Romans 15:17-19

Why was there miracles? For the Gospel to be preached. All past tense, once again.

So, if miracles were being toned down, and that is how the prophets were authenticated, how do we authenticate someone now? The perfect and complete word of God.

Moses even tells us that there will be some who do miracles and signs and are not from the Lord, how do we test these people?

If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying, 'Let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them,' you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God is testing you to find out if you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. You shall follow the LORD your God and fear Him; and you shall keep His commandments, listen to His voice, serve Him, and cling to Him.
Deut 13:1-4

Know also that the antichrist will come as well, with signs and wonders and deceiving if possible even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

The last aspect of miracles is how they are performed and what happens when they are completed. You need to know something very important about the miracles in the Bible and how they are portrayed on TV. In the Bible when a miracle happened, everyone could see it and knew about the person. Everyone knew about the paralyzed and the blind because they had been this way for years. They sat at the city gates of these towns, begged for years, so all knew their hideous plight in life.

Not only were the people known to the region who had these deficiencies, but the healings that took place were obvious to all who stood in amazement. Hands stretching into place, leprous people being healed of their wounds, blind to see, lame to walk. It was NOT like what you see on TV. Where they say I have this small tumor in my back that no one can see. Or my back hurts and then they are fine. I believe most of this to be adrenaline, not the true working of a miracle man.

Do you know that there has never been an instance where a televangelist can give doctoral proof that someone was healed…never! Actually when skeptics have done follow ups with these who were healed on the stage, they are back to their pain once again three weeks later, but the evangelist is long gone with the person’s donation to their ministry in their back pocket.

The most amazing question is simply this: Did Jesus wait for the sick or did he go to them? Look at John 5:1-9

Let me ask you this. Why don’t these televangelists ever go to the hospitals and heal these people and then share the Gospel? Would this not be the most amazing revival we have ever seen? There is only one conclusion: they can’t really heal anyone.

Conclusion

First, I am not denying that God still uses miracles. I believe that He does many times, in many ways. My denial are those who purport that they have the gift of miracle healing power that the Christ and His apostles possessed. Know that when you understand biblical miracles, you are not putting God in a box, you are not saying God has changed, it is actually just the opposite. Really think of the word miracle and how you use the word. We say that if we find a good parking spot that it’s a miracle. But what it meant in the Bible was for:

Paralytics to walk; the blind to see; dead to life.

Instead of using the word miracle know that it is God’s provision in your life. Your parents, your church, your friends, you living another day is not a miracle, but God’s provision.

I am not saying that miracles do not happen anymore, but I am saying that this is not a gift that is given to people these days.

The most amazing and unrecognized miracle that happens today is the miracle of rebirth. The miracle of a dead man awakening to the miracle of knowing Christ. Think of the biblical miracles. What did Christ have to do in order to heal the sick, make the blind to see, lame to walk? It was a simple word.

What did Christ have to do to bring the spiritually dead men to spiritual newness of life? He had to come, live a perfect life, die on the cross and rise again. You tell me which was a bigger miracle. We can see that the miracle of rebirth was, by far, the biggest, and continues to be, the biggest and greatest miracle for God’s glory ever known.

Do you know Christ? Do you know that you have sinned, if you have ever lied, even once, that is a sin and has separated you from God. You need a Saviour to pay for that sin or you will have to in hell forever. 2000 years ago, amidst all these miracles, the one that sticks out the most is the miracle of our God coming down from heaven, living amongst us, dying for us and then rising again on the third day.

I hope you are asking, “What must I do to be saved from my punishment of sin?”

Repent, or turn from your sin and run to Christ, and call on His name to save you. That is what He calls us to do: repent and believe.

If you are a Christian, think of the miracle of your rebirth. Do you take it for granted? Do you understand that we stand just as Lazarus did, being brought from death to life? Where is our thankfulness?

Don’t be like those in Christ’s time who were constantly looking for signs and wonders, but be like Stephen and be ready to die for the one who bought you.

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Biblical Miracles: Part II

Purpose of Miracles

The purpose of miracles was two fold: To indicate new revelation was coming and to authenticate the messenger.

God did this, each time as the three parts of the Bible were spoken. The overflow of miracles, if you look in the Bible, happened only three times. At the time that the Law, the Prophets and the New Testament was about to be written.

Miracles were set up to really be for God to say, “Here I come to speak!”

Miracles were the opening act, so to speak, on the night for the headlining band to play.


Look to 2 Corinthians 12:12 and we’ll start to see this play out.

The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with all perseverance, by signs and wonders and miracles.

Notice, also that when Paul says this he is speaking in past tense. Indicating here that the miracles TOOK place and were not taking place or were at least dying down.

To continue look to Hebrews 2:2-4

For if the word spoken through angels proved unalterable, and every transgression and disobedience received a just penalty, how will we escape if we neglect so great a salvation? After it was at the first spoken through the Lord, it was confirmed to us by those who heard, God also testifying with them, both by signs and wonders and by various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit according to His own will.


Notice again, that this is past tense. Also, if you know when the actual books took place you’ll notice that the miracles that are reported, only happen in the early books. It was in the Gospels, Acts and 1 Corinthians.

Later books = No indication of miracles but just the opposite

Look to 2 Timothy 4:19,20 and also Phil 2:25-28

Greet Prisca and Aquila, and the household of Onesiphorus. Erastus remained at Corinth, but Trophimus I left sick at Miletus.
2 Timothy 4:19-20

But I thought it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother and fellow worker and fellow soldier, who is also your messenger and minister to my need; because he was longing for you all and was distressed because you had heard that he was sick. For indeed he was sick to the point of death, but God had mercy on him, and not on him only but also on me, so that I would not have sorrow upon sorrow. Therefore I have sent him all the more eagerly so that when you see him again you may rejoice and I may be less concerned about you.
Philippians 2:25-28

As we can see from these two verses Paul speaks about leaving people sick, even to the point of death. It would seem that the reason is plain and simple. Unlike those who choose to teach that your sickness is by the lack of your faith, Paul is showing us that these people were not healed for the mere fact that the reason miracles existed was for the glory of the Gospel, not to make men merely healthy for the sake of themselves and “their faith.”

I would contend that the power of miracles were being faded because they were not needed anymore. The Gospels and early epistles were written and there was sufficient evidence of the miraculous power of God through the miracles that were already shown throughout the lands.

What these “miracle” people need to realize is the reason for miracles. It is NOT for the sake of the Christian nor the miracle worker. There is only one reason that any miracle ever takes place: for the glory of God. Specifically, God uses miracles for the sign of His coming word. Does God still do miracles today? Yes, of course. But not in the way that Benny Hinn would make us think. But we will get to that in our last installment.

So as we take a look at miracles, we need to understand that their purpose was to authenticate the message and the messenger. As the New Testament was written, the miracles started to fade away.

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Biblical Miracles: Part I

One of my favorite sayings is this:

We should be constantly conforming to the Word and not expect the Word to be conforming to us.

Paul puts it even more plainly in 1 Thess 5:21: examine everything carefully

Do you know what a biblical miracle is? Do you believe they still happen? Can you support your views with Scripture?

We have really all kinds of views of miracles in the world today. We have those pagan skeptics who say there is no such thing as miracles, all the way to the televangelists who believe that they see Jesus everyday healing someone from an ingrown toe nail. Yet, we must be able to decipher this through the word.

Ernest Renan who wrote “The Life of Jesus” back in the 1800’s denied the existence of miracles.

He said that Christ only aided the sick people by his gentleness to make them feel better, and that is how Jesus healed people

When Jesus walked on the water on the Sea of Galilee he was only walking on a thick amount of lily pads.

When Christ fed the 5000 there was really a hidden stash of food that the apostles secretly went to, to feed the people. Making the illusion of a miracle

We have this, and then we have people like Jan Crouch, who is the wife of Paul Crouch, who started TBN, who said that God answered two 12 year old girls prayers when he raised their pet chicken from the dead.

I have also heard, from a close friend of mine, where his music pastor stood up and said that he raised his son’s dead gerbil from the dead.


I have also seen on TV, many lies being spread; from no evil oil, so that when you spread it on your aches, God heals you, to prayer cloths that will heal your wallet from being sick and without money. I have also heard direct reports that Oral Roberts, being in the front of his school, baptized wallets so that they would have the miracle of money placed in them.

With these posts, I would like to answer, biblically, the thoughts on everyone one of these instances, so we can have a better understanding of why we believe what we believe, and then to challenge you and aid you in what you believe about the topic of miracles.

The Timing of Miracles

The hard thing sometimes when reading the Bible, is how long periods of time relate to each other. You can go from one verse to another and years have passed. So when thinking of miracles it can seem as though, also because of the order of the Bible, that miracles have always been around throughout the entire narrative of the Bible. That is not the case.

There are three distinct times of miracles and they are not continuous. The other amazing thing is that they are never more than 100 years in length.

Three periods:

Moses and Joshua

Elijah and Elisha

Jesus and the Apostles

First take a look at Exodus 4 to see why miracles came.

Then Moses said, “What if they will not believe me or listen to what I say? For they may say, ‘The LORD has not appeared to you.’ ” The LORD said to him, “What is that in your hand?” And he said, “A staff.” Then He said, “Throw it on the ground.” So he threw it on the ground, and it became a serpent; and Moses fled from it. But the LORD said to Moses, “Stretch out your hand and grasp it by its tail”—so he stretched out his hand and caught it, and it became a staff in his hand— “that they may believe that the LORD, the God of their fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has appeared to you.”

Exodus 4:1-5

Notice verse 5: that they may believe that the LORD, the God of their fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has appeared to you.

This is a key to understanding what the purpose of miracles are, but we will cover this more in detail in part II of this discussion.

Second distinct period is in the time of Elijah and Elisha. One example comes from 1 Kings 18:20-39. Notice again the reason behind this miracle on the Mount. For the glory of God and His word being proclaimed. The response of the people in verse 39 really shows the reasoning of the miracle in the first place:

When all the people saw it, they fell on their faces; and they said, "The LORD, He is God; the LORD, He is God"

As we continue to look at this division notice that Christ Himself speaks about the Old Testament in what way? He says :

The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John; since that time the gospel of the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it.
Luke 16:16

The two time periods that Jesus continues to point to is the division of the Old Testament is the Law and the Prophets. Think of also Matthew 17, who did Jesus show himself with on the mount of transfiguration?

Moses and Elijah. Moses being the representation of the Law and Elijah the representation of the prophets. This is not just by coincidence. This was for a purpose. These represented distinct, historical times of God that were important for the laying of God's word, confirmed by miracles.

Then, Christ came to fulfill the Law and the prophets and with Him he brought the most miracles showing that He was more powerful and greater than all before and more powerful over sickness, death and even nature.

Wayne Grudem

So as we see this introduction to the time period of miracles, it was definitely for a purpose divided into three specific times. In the next couple of posts we will deal with the purpose and aspects of miracles. Before that comes do know that I am, what is called a concentric cessationist, which is defined as:

Miraculous gifts have indeed ceased in the mainstream church and evangelized areas, but appear in unreached areas as an aid to spreading the Gospel

So, you will notice in the upcoming posts that I don't deny miracles happen today, but I will deny those who are rampantly purporting the happenings of miracles "...who suppose that godliness is a means of gain."

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James White vs Shabir Ally Debate

This last Friday night I had the pleasure of going to an intellectual, yet faithful and passionate debate on the topic of, "Was Jesus Christ Crucified as a Willing Sacrifice For the Sins of God's People?" The participants were James White presenting the affirmative and Shabir Ally the negative.

As we came to the debate the first thing that struck me was the fact that it was like going to the airport where we could not have bags, my wife had to take her purse back to the car and we also had to check our coats at the door. What Dr. White and the crew forgot is where they were...Seattle. No one really cares (except for a few) up here what is going on, so no one's life was going to be in danger. I had heard that Mr. Ally was a "big shot" in the Muslim circles so I was thinking that we would have a pretty big turn out from the Islamic faith to hear this man demean everything that the Christian faith is all about, but the opposite came about as only 5, from my count, were devout Muslims in the crowd.


I really didn't know what to expect from this debate or from Shabir Ally. I guess I have to be honest, I expected a more forceful and angry Muslim than we got from Mr. Ally, and for that I commend this gentleman. He was very calm, presented his arguments with care, and never once showed that he was irritated in any way.

I knew that coming into the debate that I was going to be writing a post on the subject so I tried to come in with an open mind about things, even though we know that my Christian presuppositions will always take over.

Dr. White presented, as usual, very good evidence from the New Testament, early Christian writings and then the historical record of the truth of affirming the statement that indeed, Christ died willingly as a sacrifice. Not only did White purport the evidence in the opening but also tried to debunk some arguments that he knew his opponent would try and bring into play in his opening. Very well done in my view.

What we then found from Shabir Ally was more of an attack using other heretics, such as some open theists, for the arguments in the opposition when it came to the negative viewpoint of the atonement and sacrifice. This actually came to me as a surprise. It seemed as though Shabir was very unprepared for the debate and this really started to show during the cross examination.

Dr. White pleaded with Mr. Ally to use the same examination with the New Testament that he would with the Koran. Because the arguments that were presented by Mr. Ally were no more than unevolved, undocumented theories and fictions against the New Testament, instead of trying to just simply prove or exegete the Scriptures differently than Dr. White was presenting.

Mr. Ally sure knew his stuff when it came to the Koran and the historical ramifications of the Bible, but knew very little (this is no understatement) about the atonement of Christ and its portrayal when dealing with the Old Testament affirmations of the crucifixion to come.

So, instead of crossing Dr. White about the topic at hand, he started to bring up old topics from their past debates. He tried to bring suspicion to the biblical record by trying to accuse it of different supposed contradictions, but Dr. White showed each one to be found wanting. Dr. White even exclaimed at one point: I don't know what this has to do with the topic at hand.

In the end, the debate was very one sided and the side presented by Mr. Ally continued to be very circular in reasoning and doubt, and was pointed out so by Dr. White numerous times without a clear response. Mr. Ally continued put up smoke screens by long dissertations on the Koran so the original question would be lost.

For me, this wasn't a debate on the topic at hand. Very little time was spent on what I found to be the key of the debate and that was, "Did Christ WILLINGLY die?" Dr. White was so busy chasing the trails that Mr. Ally threw him down, he didn't get to spend a whole lot of time on this intricate part of the debate. I didn't feel as though this was Dr. White's fault but was in actuality the goal of Mr. Ally. The strongest parts of the debate came when Dr. White presented his two prepared statements as they were on target and on topic.

The climax, in my mind, happened in the end, when Dr. White was having to defend Paul as a true disciple of our Lord Jesus Christ. It came about when Dr. White was bringing forth his concluding argument and quoted this verse:

I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me

Galatians 2:20

I don't know if Dr. White knows this, but in my view this is when the Spirit spoke. His voice inflection was perfect, his countenance seemed to be in the presence of the Holy One, and it seemed with a tear in his eye, spoke with authority and followed up with: this was the very personal reflection of a true disciple of Christ, not a tyrant. (very loose quote)

I am happy to say that Dr. White is one that I continue to enjoy listening to and learning from. He seemed to have the right heart for this debate. It was not an empty attempt to bring forth wisdom, but true strife to say as Paul did:

Brethren, my heart's desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation.
For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.
Romans 10:1,2

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The Case for Faith: Lee Strobel

I want to show some grace here in this review so that I am not coming across as attacking the author or the participants that the author interviewed. I read The Case for Christ and very much enjoyed that book and thought it was done in a very tasteful manner, but this book left me shaking my head.

Lee Strobel unpacks this book just as he did with the Case for Christ, in that, he has 8 different questions that he would like answered and then goes and interviews 8 experts in those fields to answer those questions. The one thing I wish that he would have done is read some of the reviews and thoughts from readers and taken them to heart. The main complaint is that he just interviewed those who agreed with the Christian position and chose not to interact with those who were on the opposed side of the debate.

Although Strobel starts the book off on interviewing an atheist, Charles Templeton, this was the last time that he interviews anyone on the opposing side. Although, I do really like the way the book is set up with the interviewing process.

The questions that were to be raised in the book are the following:

1) If there's a loving God, why does this pain-wracked world groan under so much suffering and evil?

2) If the miracles of God contradict science, then how can any rational person believe that they're true?

3) If God is morally pure, how can he sanction the slaughter of innocent children as the Old Testament says he did?

4) If God cares about the people he created, how could he consign so many of them to an eternity of torture in hell just because they didn't believe the right things about him?

5) If Jesus is the only way to heaven, then what about the millions of people who have never heard of him?

6) If God really created the universe, why does the evidence of science compel so many to conclude that the unguided process of evolution accounts for life?

7) If God is the ultimate overseer of the church, why has it been rife with hypocrisy and brutality throughout the ages?

8) If I'm still plagued by doubts, then is it still possible to be a Christian?

Strobel, to answer these questions, goes to eight different men to help him answer these tough questions posed to the Christian faith. Some of those interviewed were Norman Geisler, William Lane Craig, Peter Kreeft, Ravi Zacharias, John Woodbridge and others.

We could always discuss the theological differences that I have between myself and the contributors, such as their views on libertarian free will, the views that hell is not a literal place with flames, the view that the big bang is true and God was the originator just 'tweaked' it to make it work, that God reacted to man and created hell, but it wasn't in His original plan, and so on. These are all things that contributed to a very poor discussion on the reason for faith. But, even above all these problems, Strobel forgets the biggest reason for faith in God and Jesus Christ: our sin.

Sin was completely left out of the discussion. This topic of us needing a Creator and Saviour to take our place of our sin was not in any of the discussions. The route that Strobel takes is more of a route in putting us in a court room. The atheists and agnostics as the prosecutors, God as the defendant and we are the jurors. We sit, listen, weigh the evidence and then choose who to follow. The problem is that this leaves God as a powerless being, ringing His hands, hoping we choose him. This is not faith! This is just choosing the lesser of the two evils, or the better of the two goods, depending on how you see it.

This book is really a bad attempt at presenting the true God. It really leans more towards Aristotlianism, where "reason governs us" instead of what we are told it should be: God and His word governs us. I am afraid that the bad theology presented here is not going to strengthen anyone's faith but in actuality, will make them rely on their intellect and thoughts on the issue. This is actually the reason that Strobel is able to bring in a Roman Catholic theologian (Peter Kreeft) and no have no issue with his thoughts on issues. Strobel really doesn't differentiate between the Catholics and Protestants but just merely continues to call them both "Christians." Ignoring the reformation or the Pope calling the Catholic church, "the only true church." (sidenote: I know this book was written before this declaration, but it was not a new declaration or something Protestants and Catholics didn't already know was the foundational thoughts of the Roman Catholic church)

Anyone who takes a long look at themselves will know that they change their minds on things all the time. They change their views on things all the time, so what is going to be different this time? The main proponent of faith was left out: Jesus Christ died for the sins of the people, the Holy Spirit gives them faith, calls them to His side, God justifies them with the blood of Christ, and perfects them until the day Christ returns. It is God's power that holds us, not our "weighing of evidence."

This is the reason I cannot recommend this book to anyone. It seems as though Strobel has placed God on the side of the road trying to "sell" His religion to people and hoping some will just choose Him. God is not a beggar.

One contributor said this: "God sends no one to heaven and He sends no one to hell" Although I agree that sin is what sends people to hell, it is not true that God doesn't send anyone to heaven. He is the only power that is able to send people to heaven.

It seems as though this book missed some key verses in the Bible:

For indeed He was crucified because of weakness, yet He lives because of the power of God. For we also are weak in Him, yet we will live with Him because of the power of God directed toward you.
2 Corinthians 13:4

No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
John 6:44

Most important Paul lays out the importance of the Gospel, not secular reasoning or secular evidence for the case for faith:

For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. I was with you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling, and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God.
1 Corinthians 2:2-5

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Theological Implications of a Theological Lived Life

I know this is a tough title to get through and then try and understand what this post will be about. My thoughts on this is the simple fact of studying the word of God as much as pastors do and those of us who have decided that God has called us to teach it to others. This also spills to another part of the world that Augustine, Calvin, Bunyan, Edwards and even someone like Machen never thought would be possible: blogging.


I spend a lot of time reading other posts, books, articles and even listening to sermons on the subject of God and the implications of His commands. The danger that comes through this is the fact of me thinking I am holy merely by studying holiness. This is like me thinking I am going to lose weight by merely reading diet books, thinking I can fix a car because I read mechanical engineering books, thinking I am a gardener because I read "Home and Garden."

Will these readings aid and help me in my application of these skills? Yes, but only in the head knowledge and the teaching of others about the methodology, but not in the transforming of my own life into becoming slimmer, becoming an auto mechanic or a gardener.

The only possibility of me becoming these things is the actual outpouring of my knowledge into the work of those skills and that knowledge.

Same can be said of our theology. We must all continue to ask ourselves, "Why am I continuing to study, read and listen to theological issues?" Is it for personal gain...a knowledge that puffs up? Is it to merely teach others? Is it so I can defend my position? Or is it so that I can grow in a loving relationship with my Father who sent His Son in my stead? I am not saying that our works make us a Christian, but our works prove that we are truly a theologian to be imitated.

I find this an interesting discussion as we see the words of a very popular verse, one that you have heard if you are a pastor:

For Ezra had set his heart to study the law of the Lord and to practice it, and to teach His statutes and ordinances in Israel.

Ezra 7:10

Notice that as pastors and teachers it is natural for us to do the first and the last of these practices of Ezra: studying and teaching. But the most important is the glue that holds these two together. If the study of the law in Ezra 7:10 is its introduction and teaching the statutes are its conclusion, then the practice of the law is its thesis. It is the meat, it is the central reason for doing the other two.

We must make sure that we imitate Ezra in all his ways, not just in the introduction and the conclusion.

We must practice our theologies, be shepherds, loving the sheep, instead of being the pious theologians from the tower shouting down to the poor downtrodden simple minded milk drinkers.

for our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction; just as you know what kind of men we proved to be among you for your sake.

1 Thessalonians 1:5

You are witnesses, and so is God, how devoutly and uprightly and blamelessly we behaved toward you believers;

1 Thessalonians 2:10

For our proud confidence is this: the testimony of our conscience, that in holiness and godly sincerity, not in fleshly wisdom but in the grace of God, we have conducted ourselves in the world, and especially toward you.

2 Corinthians 1:12

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Any readers left?

It has been a while since I have come to the blog to write and have missed it in part but also have enjoyed taking a hiatus for a bit. I have really been focusing my time on what it is God is calling me to do as a leader in my church and what reforms must I take in my own life. Through this process it has brought me in understanding some of my weaknesses that need to work on but also has driven me, once again, back to the main thing: the Cross of our Christ.

I was reading a short biography on the biography of William Wilberforce the other night and Wilberforce said something that I have heard before but once again struck at the heart of understanding the gospel and our lives in Christ.

My grand objection to the religious system still held by many who declare
themselves orthodox Churchmen...is, that it tends to render Christianity so much
a system of prohibitions rather than of privilege and hopes, and thus the
injunction to rejoice, so strongly enforced in the New Testament, is practically
neglected, and Religion is made to wear a forbidding and gloomy air and not one
of peace and hope and joy.

Is this not an indictment to us today? Is this not an indictment to myself? Instead of focusing what God provides to us for our joy and peace we tend to bring gloom on those areas that we are convicted to be wrong and sin, when taking a closer look have more to do with our upbringing than the actual Scriptural mandate against such things.

One of the main things that bothers me within any church is the perception of how one dresses is a look into their holiness. How is this biblical? I believe it was Mark Driscoll who stated that the only time dress is mentioned in the New Testament is always speaking against dressing up in a formal manner and focuses it's time on merely dressing modestly. Yet, if some do not dress in a shirt and tie, some ask, "Why don't they love God more?" This is not the only instance but it is a root of many problems. Meaning, our convictions become from what we tend to like or dislike NOT what is biblically mandated.

I had the opportunity to participate in a mock interview for an aspiring pastor and one asked what his thought was of dancing in the aisles and other forms of worship. He responded by saying, "I don't agree with it, I don't know if I have a biblical reason for all things, but I am pretty sure that if I see something that I don't agree with I will just know it." Now my indictment is not on his thoughts on dancing in the aisles, but in the answer. I told him this and he agreed and this gentleman is a great man of God, but his answer was more wide spread than I think he knew.

This seems to be the answer by most in the Christian culture these days. "If I don't like it, it is wrong." Hmmm...seems Pharisaical to me.

Anyway...I don't want to rant all night on this subject, but this hiatus has been a good opportunity to root my answers to the only thing I need to defend and that is the Scriptures, not my likes or dislikes. And in the end, the only thing I want to be known for defending is the cross of Christ. We need to be a church of joy and peace and not one of prohibitions, unless they are biblically warranted.

May God bless you and your ministry, where ever you are and whatever capacity He has called you to.

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Unconditional Election - Affirmed

This is a repost before I nail a tough subject that will bring much debate and comments from a lot of people, which if kept charitable, will be a great time of discussion. Til then.

This doctrine is one that I have not always subscribed to. It is one that I was never even taught until about 8 years ago. It was one that I would have probably laughed at before then and scoffed at. I always thought that I was in control of my destiny, that I was the one who in control of my actions that I was the one who chose the paths on which to walk. So, naturally when it came to salvation I thought it was I who chose God and at times I thought how lucky He was to have me on His team. This doctrine has been debated all the way back to Augustine and Jerome against a man named Pelagius, it was the doctrine that is said to be the foundation of the reformation against the Catholic church in the 16th Century, it is what defined the Protestant movement and again is what was attacked by a man named James Arminius and what has been defended by men like Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Owen, John Bunyan, Jonathan Edwards, Charles Spurgeon, R.C. Sproul and John MacArthur. This doctrine is one where we must lean completely on Scripture as our entire conscience fights against it. Even our society would tell us it isn’t true, and they do this every time they tell us that “You can do anything you set your mind to” or “you choose your destiny.” So, this doctrine is one where we need to put away your old inclinations and just hear Scripture, listen to what it says plainly for this was Paul’s prayer at the beginning of Colossians:

For this reason also, since the day we heard of it, we have not ceased to pray for you and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding,so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God;
Colossians 1:9,10


We are going to study what it means to be chosen of God and look at some key words to describe what this means:
1. Importance of the words: Foreknew, foreknowledge, foreknown, foreordain
2. Importance of the word: Predestine
3. Importance of the words: chosen or elect

Importance of the word foreknew, foreknowledge, foreknown, foreordain

The first word that comes with much debate and is at the real root of this debate is the word foreknown. Some say that this word means that God foreknew whether man would choose Him or not and based on those actions of belief, God elected those to salvation. So God looked through the portal of time and saw those who would choose Him and then He elected them or chose them unto salvation. The other view, the one that I hold to, is that God’s foreknowledge is much more intimate, much more thorough than just someone’s actions but that God foreknew you in a way to where He foreknew you as a person not just merely your actions. Let’s look at the first part of our text to understand this, Romans 8:28-30.

And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

So, the question here is what did God foreknow in this passage? Does it say anything about God foreknowing anything about actions? Now, understand we do know that God knows everything, but what does God foreknow in this passage? It points to Him foreknowing the person, not their actions. There are three times that God’s foreknowledge is mentioned in verb form, here in Romans 8:29, also in 1 Peter 1:20 and also in Romans 11:2, so let’s look at these as well to get a well informed prospective.

God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?
Romans 11:2

If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth;
knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ. For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you who through Him are believers in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.
1 Peter 1:17-21

So, the three times that God’s foreknowledge is mentioned in the verb tense we have that God foreknew what? The person or persons, but now what does the word actually mean. For this, we need to break the word down. The word in the Greek means to “know beforehand, or to predestine” but what about this word “know?” Is it just merely having knowledge about something or someone or is there something more here.

The word “know” or “knew” is a very intimate word to the both the Hebrews and Greeks. The word actually is used to describe that Adam and Eve knew each other and then their son Cain was born in Genesis 4:1. If the word merely meant to know about someone, then we have a true miracle of birth in Genesis 4:1 instead of the obvious reality that to “know” for the Hebrews was a very intimate term between two persons.

We also see this intimate relationship in John 10:14

“I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me,
even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.
For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again.
John 10:14-17

So does God just merely “know” of Christ? Or is this an intimate relationship between the two?

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
And before you were born I consecrated you;
I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.”
Jeremiah 1:5

This knowledge or to know is also shown in Matthew 7:22,23; 1 Corinthians 8:3, 2 Timothy 2:19; Exodus 2:25; Galatians 4:9

When you think of the word predestine what do you think of? The word means exactly what we would take it to mean, the Greek word means “to decide beforehand or predetermine. In the biblical sense it comes with the connotation as God decreeing from eternity past.” There is no way around this word that is used many times in the New Testament. Take a look at these verses and the variety of ways the term is used:

Acts 4:28; Romans 8:29,30, 1 Cor 2:7; Eph 1:5,11

We can see especially in Ephesians that God predetermined His elect to obtain His inheritance, Why or for what cause? For the kind intention of His will. We also see this when David speaks to God in Psalm 139:1-16

So we, see that when we are told that we are predestined by God, that is exactly what is meant, the all sovereign Creator predestines His own, His elect to heaven.

The Importance of the words: Choose and Elect

So, now after seeing the importance of the words foreknow and predestine we come back to the words choose and elect. When God speaks of choosing a people He does it because of His will not ours. We can actually see this all through the Bible. How does God choose people? Does He choose them because they are seeking Him or do they get chosen by the mere fact that God wants to use them? Think of this…

The choosing of Abraham: Genesis 12 says nothing of why He chose Abram He just chose. What is interesting is that after Abram is chosen, the first action after his choosing is a sinful one! God told him to go forth from his relatives and he took Lot and his wife. I think this just shows once again that God chooses weak vessels, gives them faith and uses them for His glory. God does not look to who is strong in faith and hope they will choose Him, that is backwards.

Also, look at others that were chosen:

The choosing of the nation of Israel: Deut 7:6
The choosing of Moses: Exodus 3,4
The choosing of Gideon: Judges 6-8 (Oh Valient Warrior!) where was Gideon at this time? Hiding
The choosing of Jeremiah: Jeremiah 1
The choosing of David: 1 Samuel 16
The choosing of the twelve apostles: Luke 6 (John 15:16; You didn’t choose me; I chose you!)
The choosing of Saul: Acts 9

The Greek word translated “chosen” is eklektos, from the verb kaleo, “to call,” and the preposition ek, “out.” Literally, it means “the called-out ones.” The term is often used in the New Testament as a synonym for Christians (e.g., Col. 3:12; 2 Tim. 2:10; Titus 1:1). The expression “called-out ones” emphasizes that we who are saved are redeemed because of God’s choice, not our own. Jesus told His disciples, “You did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16). In other words, if you are a Christian, it is ultimately because you were chosen by God Himself, not because of anything you did to get yourself into the Kingdom of God
John MacArthur

So, the words chosen ones or the elect are actually the exact same words in the
Greek and it is referred to 24 times in the New Testament. There is no way
around these simple to understand words. We have been chosen by the all
sovereign God to our position as His chosen people.

1 Peter 2:9 speaks to this specifically:
But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God’s OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

So when we see this in Colossians 3:12 that we are chosen by God, that is exactly what it means. We did nothing to earn this election, we did nothing to earn this choosing, but He chose us out of the kind intention of His will, not ours.

Conclusion

We have seen that sometimes our earthly view that seems correct is actually just the opposite. We think we chose God but in 1 John 4 it tells us that we love, because He first loved us. Without God foreknowing us, choosing and predestining us, calling us, we would still be lost
and without hope. But, if you believe in Jesus Christ and you believe that He God’s Son who died on the cross and rose again, and He alone is your Lord, than that is shown as proof of your election, because only those who know Christ have been chosen. Just as it says in John 10:26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. Notice, Jesus does not say that because you don’t believe you are not my sheep but those who are not called, who are not chosen by God cannot believe. They cannot be Christ’s sheep.

When I was coming to Christ, I thought I was doing it all myself, and though I sought the Lord earnestly, I had no idea the Lord was seeking me.… [Then] the thought struck me, How did you come to be a Christian? I sought the Lord. But how did you come to seek the Lord? The truth flashed across my mind in a moment—I should not have sought Him unless there had been some previous influence on my mind to make me seek Him.… I saw that God was at the bottom of it all, and that He was the Author of my faith, and so the whole doctrine of grace opened up to me.… I desire to make this constant confession, “I ascribe my change wholly to God.”

Charles Spurgeon

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Faith Like a Child

Every night when my 4 year old son goes to sleep I spend some time reading him a Bible story, going over theology and then ending on prayer requests and prayer. Some of the things that I have covered with him are the atonement, the Trinity, repentance and the inspired Word, etc. It is a great time of devotion with my son. The other night as we were sharing our prayer requests my son said, "Dad, pray that I would not go to hell." To a father, this could not have been a better request to pray for. I asked him to tell me how he can avoid hell. To that, he said, "I have to be obedient." I corrected him and said that we need to repent. To that my son said, "Yeah, we need to turn from sin and run to Christ!" I said, "yes, that is exactly right." I then asked him to tell me about the atonement and he did, and we were able to pray that God would continue to work on my son's heart. It was a great evening, like they all are, with my little son, as we spoke about the great and glorious things of our Father.

Soli Deo Gloria

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Book on the Atonement

I am, once again, leaving for a week next week, this time for some vacation with the family. When I return I will be finishing up the Five Points of Calvinism and then probably getting back to my other series, which was my view on the Ordo Salutis. For now, I wanted to let all know that there is a book that Dr. Bruce Ware recommended to me after I emailed him with some questions. If you ever want to ask him a question, he is very open and willing to answer questions you have for him, so I would encourage you to do so if there is certain parts of his ministry or theology you want to inquire.

For me, it was the extent of the atonement of Christ. I have been doing a ton of study on the subject and have a great teacher behind the scenes that I have been able to glean much knowledge from. If you want to read his thoughts on the subject and collection of quotes from famous Calvinists from the past, go to Theology Online. As I spoke to Dr. Ware about this subject, he pointed me to a book by Dr. Michael Thomas called The Extent of the Atonement: A Dilemma for Reformed Theology from Calvin to the Consensus. I hope that after reading this it will be further revelation of what the reformers and historic Calvinists believed before Beza and Owen took Calvinism off track, as the Remonstrants did the Arminians. I will be giving my findings and beliefs on the atonement when I hit the atonement part of the Five Points of Calvinism. I will tell you, that at this point, I am thoroughly convinced that not only does the Bible teach the unlimited/limited view of the atonement, but so did many, and I mean many, of the historic Calvinists and also, Calvin himself.

I hope that when I bring my findings that we can engage on this site as we always do, with Scripture first and foremost, theological persuasion second and experience a distant third.

May your weekend be blessed and may we all return to the book faithfully handed down to the saints.

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What does a Christian look like?

I recently came back from a mission trip to Mexico and it truly shocked me. Seeing the poverty that is prevalent was atrocious. As I sat in the worship services that I was able to be a part of on our first day (one in the morning, one in the evening) I was excited to think that these are the very people that I will be worshiping God forever with. The funny thing that I thought of is that the pastor, his son and many others in the service, would be looked down upon for how they looked. Meaning, they didn't dress in a nice shirt and tie, they didn't have a suit, and some even just showed up in shorts and a t-shirt.

I was speaking to my father about this, and he had spoken to an African pastor about 20 years ago and asked him if there was anything that he did not think was right in the way that the evangelists did things that came into his village. The pastor, making sure that he first sang their praises, said there was one thing that frustrated him the most. The missionaries, after adults and children were saved, made them dress like and American businessman. They literally told the villagers that they must wear a shirt and tie and the women had to be in dresses.

I don't know much of Hudson Taylor, but I do know that he is respected in almost every circle of modern Christendom for his service to the Chinese people and the proclamation of the gospel. What I find interesting is that it was the "great" Taylor that changed for the people and didn't not expect them to change for him. I guess the question for us is, what non-biblical issues, dress or traditions do we force upon others so that they look and act just as we do?

One of my favorite things that happened at the first church I went to in Mexico, was that they had time of testimony for any who would stand and speak. So, one by one, people stood up and told the church of their praises of what God had been doing. To show how different their thankfulness is compared to ours, one man stood up and simply praised God that he had lived for another birthday. The man could not have been any older than 40, yet praised God for his mere breath. Amen! This man was in blue jeans and a colorful polo shirt and was able to stand confidently among the congregation. The question should be: could he do the same at your church?

Mark Driscoll mentions this in one of his books as a pastor came in to see how Mars Hill functions. As they were standing in the lobby, a young woman walks by, dressed goth (if I am remembering correctly) and the pastor said, "See that is what is so great about your ministry, you will have the chance to talk to that young woman and maybe someday she will be saved. " Driscoll responded saying, "She is saved. She is actually one of our volunteers in the church." (these quotes are summarized) We need to all make sure that we do not expect people to look, dress or act like us, because we "have always done it like this" or we will all turn into those described in James 2 as showing favoritism to those we think look holy, instead of looking to those who ARE holy.

My dad has told me a pretty funny definition.

Do you know what the definition of a fanatic is?

Someone who loves Jesus more than you!

It has almost come to this in contemporary Christendom to say:

Question: Do you know what a Christian looks like?

Answer: Anyone who looks like me.

May God bless you this week and when you see someone who is different than you, ask yourself why you label them before you even know them. Maybe, just maybe, they are holier than even you are! For that is exactly what I found in Mexico, holy people living for God no matter the cost, dress or tradition.

Soli Deo Gloria? Do we mean it? I hope so.

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Will It Blend?

For the sake of "staleness!":

Now, don't get any ideas that I have the ability to be a regular poster like Seth is. Plus, what you are about to witness will prove why I should not post very often! But here is a little something to bring mirth to your day:

Will it blend?

My favorite so far is between the glass marbles and the glow sticks (the iPods are just too painful!)

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Hurricane Katrina and the liberal media

We will bookend the week with another article from John Piper. I was greatly encouraged by this bold statement that was published shortly after Katrina. It not only calls to account the blasphemous accusations of man against God, but also provides us with a biblical response to such tragedies.

God is supreme. God is sovereign. May we all learn the cover our mouths, but do so quicker than Job did (40:4).

Click here to read the article. It is imbedded in a .PDF, so I apologize in advance for the awkward format. But the content is too good to pass up.

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Dead Sea Scrolls

Thank you Seth, for bailing me out yesterday. As my best excuse, I actually thought I had already blogged for the day. But at about 10:30, it occurred to me that it was WEDNESDAY and not Tuesday. Jumping on to the blog, I saw Seth's post. Man, he's hard core!

Anyway...

I had the once-in-a-life-time opportunity last October to take our College/Career group to see the Dead Sea Scrolls exhibit at the Pacific Science Center. In God's timing, we were in the midst of our study through the book of Psalms which was one of the displays at the Science Center. And this event was actually where Seth and I came up with the idea for our logo, as I had scrolls on the brain at the time!


It was the first time the scrolls had been outside of Israel, and the visit proved to be more than worth our time. A great reminder of how faithful the Lord has been to preserve His word. We realize that the Scrolls do not make the Scriptures inspired, but show them to be inspired.

One of my Professors I had while attending The Master's Seminary is a man by the name of Dr. William Barrick. He recently preached a sermon about the historical background of this amazing find. You can listen to it by clicking here. And, you can get other papers and sermons on his site.

If the exhibit comes even remotely close to your location, you need to go. And listening to Dr. Barrick is something I wish I had access to before our viewing. Enjoy!

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Hello from Mexico

Hey, just wanted to stop by and give you guys a quick link to the Mission page and tell you what a blessing it has been to be down here. If you would like full updates, take a look at TCC Youth Mission's Trip. I will tell you, times like these make me a true believer in God's sovereignty, because if I weren't I don't know what my thoughts would be on all these hungry and starving people that will die in utter poverty, some without ever hearing of the Lord Jesus Christ. May all this be for His glory and honor.

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mp3's

To piggy back off of yesterday's post, below are some of the sites I visit most frequently. Some of them do have the option to Podcast. Any preachers or sites that you know of that would be good to work into the rotation? Let us know!


Taylor Creek Church - we'll start with what is closest to home. Both Seth and I (and our families) have experienced more spiritual growth here than anywhere else in our Christian walks. You can find sermons from our Pastor, Jason Katen, as well as Seth and I at this site. Podcast available!

Christ Fellowship Baptist Church; Steve Lawson. This man will spur you on to preach with passion. Podcasts here as well.

Art Azurdia; Art was the preacher for our family camp at Lakeside Bible camp last summer. A great preacher as well.

Countryside Bible Church - this is the church that I had mentioned in my post yesterday; Tom Pennington. Rocky Wyatt, his Associate Pastor, has filled our pulpit as well, and is a man who loves the word of God. They do Podcast as well.

Desiring God; John Piper - free downloads. OnePlace is also a great resource for many other ministries and their audio sermons.

Grace Immanuel Bible Church; Jerry Wragg. Jerry used to be the personal assistant to John Macarthur. He was also the shepherd of our Sunday School class when we attended Grace.

Grace Life; a ministry of Grace Community Church. This is the preaching ministry of both Phil Johnson and Don Green. Excellent. Podcast on site.

I have others, but those are the ones that make the weekly rotation (as best I can!). Let us know what you like to listen to.

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Mondays, Sermons, iPods and Cancer

It's still Monday, right? (barely) So here goes a good 'ol case of plagiarism...

Dr. John Piper has made a great impact on my growth as a Pastor, and a student of the word of God. Last April I had the great privilege of attending the Children Desiring God conference. Dr. Piper was the Keynote speaker, and from a human standpoint, it was a thrill to see him preach in person. For those of you who also strive to be better preachers, you know that I am not saying that in terms of an "audience member" watching a "performer". But as a young preacher, I got to see, in the flesh, a true man of God with a powerful passion to proclaim the word of God.


Related to that, two Christmas' ago, our Senior Pastor, the College/Career group (whom I shepherd) and my incredible wife, chipped in and bought me a 30 Gig iPod (black of course. Yes, Seth followed ME in that. 'Cept he got the 80 gig - newman!) At any rate, I realized the real use of this incredible device; sermon hunting. Any and all sites that allowed mp3 downloads is where I spent my free time. I had a friend who shared with me that the church where he grew up at now offered their sermons online. Their Pastor, Tom Pennington, had been on staff at Grace Community Church when we attended in 1999. I went home that night, and saw that they had the last two and a half years of sermons on their site. The following work day my friend asked if I downloaded any sermons. My reply? "Yes, all of them". So, I have issues (not the least of which were the 300 or so AW Tozer sermons I had downloaded about a month before that incident). Perhaps my post tomorrow will be the links of where I currently get my sermons.

(Where is all this going? Wait for it!....) Then, one of the College Guys tipped me off to the wonderful world of podcasting. What a deal! One of the first podcasts that I subscribed to was Desiring God, and I got to hear Dr. Piper on a daily basis. During one of the intros it was announced that Dr. Piper had been diagnosed with prostate cancer. It was a shock to hear, as it always is. But later, he released an article that shows a true biblical response to life's severest trials. Click here to read "Don't Waste Your Cancer".

I sent this to a friend of mine who has advanced colon cancer. While I was a bit concerned that it would be received as condescending, he said it was a great encouragement. And looking back, that should not surprise me being that it was based on the word of God. May you or someone else you know be encouraged by these words as well.

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Mission Trip

As of tomorrow at 6:00am PST I will be on a plane down to Mission, Texas for a mission's trip. I will be leading a team of 7 youth and 2 other adults, in a time of service projects, Vacation Bible School and street evangelism. We will be staying in Mission, Texas and then heading over the border into Mexico each day where we will be doing the evangelism and VBS. Please be praying for us. I will be gone until Saturday, August 11th but Justin has promised to keep the blog going for next week. When I return I will start again on the series of the Five Points of Calvinism and then possibly a blog war with my other blog and friends at Theology Online on the affirmation of the literal 1000 year kingdom. Should be fun.

Below are some pictures of the pastors we'll be helping down in Mexico. Thanks for the prayers ahead of time.

First, is Duane and Marilyn Gibson. They are head of the mission that we will be visiting and they will be leading us into Mexico each day. These people have been servants for many years for the cause of the spread of the Gospel. Here is the link to their website: International Evangel Heralds.

We will be doing a week long Vacation Bible School at Christ the Rock Baptist Church with Pastor Jose Perez and his wife Lucy Perez. Below is their picture and below that is a picture of their church.






We will also be doing some special projects at Berachah Baptist Church for Pastor Julio Olvera and his wife Eliza Olvera. Below is their picture and below that is their church.

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Debate is Over

In case you didn't see Nate's comment I will repost it here with some follow up thoughts and guidance for what will still come after this.

Nate's comment:

Hey guys...alright here is the deal. I have already emailed Seth earlier today to inform him of my decision to drop out of this debate. I know it may come as a disappointment to some (very much so to me) but please hear me out. I stated a few days ago that this was originally intended to be only a few emails back and forth between Seth and I discussing Calvinism and my beliefs, not for the intent of changing our views necessarily (though that wasnt out of the question) but more as clarification because Seth seemed like he thought Dr. Goetsch painted Calvinists all wrong and it appeared to me that Seth and many others on here painted fundamentalists (in no way Arminian) wrong. Thats really what has evolved into this large scale debate...which is ok. The problem is, I have nowhere near the time to put into this what I need to, and seemingly every night I am spending hours reading posts and responding, as well as studying and its kinda wearing me out. I have certainly had much more to answer than Seth. This is not only difficult to do because of a hectic schedule outside of this debate, but it has also led to very little time to spend with my family just about every night. I can't do that anymore, it just doesnt seem right.

I am truly sorry for those who are disappointed and wanted to see this debate continue. Trust me, I love debating and arguing, and I didn't even get to my good points yet!! =) But alas, my set up with Seth was to probably go a week or two...and it has already been almost two weeks and we are still discussing total depravity. Hopefully you guys understand.

Let me also add that it has become increasingly clear that no one is going to change their position. You all seem pretty entrenched in Calvinism and I couldn't believe more in my beliefs. The biggest problem I have ever had with any Calvinist is when I've been told that evangelism is not really necessary. It was nice to hear from everyone on here that evangelism is important to them. To me, that is without a doubt the biggest issue. Also, I'm sorry for any comments that were deemed offensive...they were not meant to be so. With that, I bid you all farewell. I thanked Seth for his participation and I will thank you all too for your participation and for caring about God's word and the things of God as much as I do. I consider you all brothers in Christ, no matter what our disagreement on these issues. And I do sincerely feel bad for backing out, as I dont consider myself a quitter. But I just figured better early on than in the middle when this already commanding an overwhelming amount of my time, more than I really can give.

Thanks guys, hopefully you all understand. Seth, thanks for opening your blog to those who dont believe like you do.

God Bless

Nate


The one thing that I do want to point to, that I emailed Nate about, is the fact of us being Calvinists who evangelize.

Here was my email to Nate:

I would also ask you to know that if you believe that Calvinism has no reason to invoke evangelism (which is really, in the end fatalism), you need to use the same logic with your own beliefs. Which would mean me telling you that if you believe one can "resist" God's effectual call, then I could as easily draw the conclusion that if you don't resist and you do believe you have something to boast about. Which would be a work, and then you have a works based salvation. I could also say that if you believe in free will that you also need to take that to the end and say that God cannot know the future and you become an open theist. But, I don't believe either of those to be true.

There is a line that people cross (hyper Calvinism/fatalism and Open Theism) but all Calvinists and all free will people don’t cross that line and neither should act as though the other will ultimately end up there. If you believe it about the opposing side, you must use that same logic with your own belief system. This is actually what made me stop saying that all free willers have to end up as Open Theist, because I am no fatalist, but figured I had to end up there being that is the danger of Calvinism. Does that make sense?

I have actually challenged my Calvinist friends, including some "high ranking" ones (whatever that means) that we can not say that Arminians, or free will believers, are open theists, because once we do that we must come to the conclusion that Calvinism will come to be fatalism.

So, just because a belief in theology can lead somewhere, does not mean that is where it HAS to lead. This has taken some time for me to mature in this area...

Usually these Calvinists will say that Arminians are not saved and that Calvinism is the only true Gospel (whatever that means) but know that historical Calvinism was not this way. Just look at Whitefield and Wesley.

End of email

The one thing to note that I find very interesting is that Nate did not want to continue because he could see that none of us were going to change:

"Let me also add that it has become increasingly clear that no one is going to change their position. You all seem pretty entrenched in Calvinism and I couldn't believe more in my beliefs."

This is going to sound rude, but it is really just an observation. Is this not the thinking of ALL free willers? "If I don't see it working, then I will either give up, or change my style to try and get them to change." This is the danger. That it is what I do, how I present, my style that changes or convinces people. Not God. Calvinism on the other hand, knows that we must merely honor God and His message, and it is His work, not our own that brings about change. I honestly believe that we take a higher and stronger stance on Isaiah 55:11 and lean on that more than we lean on the outward appearance of belief. We understand that all we are, are seed planters, not the cause of growth. We are patient farmers.

So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire, And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it.
Isaiah 55:11

What I am going to do is continue to post on the 5 points of Calvinism and hopefully will come to some good conversations throughout these days.

Soli Deo Gloria

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Definitions Please

I asked Nate to give me some exegesis and like anyone on the opposite side of the fence, we never feel as though they did a good enough job. Not saying this is just myself, but I am sure that I have not live up to my side of the bill either, in Nate's mind, with some of my exegesis. What I would like to do is have us ALL define some words. So, if you can, even if you agree with some of the definitions presented, all define these words so that we can see where each of us are coming from. Try and make it pretty short and sweet. Nate: if you would like to add some words in here, feel free to have us define them as well. Here goes:

Determine

Ordain

Foreknowledge

Predestine

Elect

Divine Purpose


How I define.
Determine: When I say that I am "determined" or that I "determined" to do something, this means that I will carry out that "plan" whatver that plan is. If I say that I determined to get back at a co-worker then I will do whatever I can do so. If I am a determined individual, then I am one who will do whatever I need to, to accomplish something. Take this to God. He is called omnipotent. So when He determines something for His purpose, it will come to pass. If He falls short in His determination how can I call Him omnipotent?

Ordain: To me this one is pretty simple. If I ordain something, or better yet, a President or King ordains something, they put something into place for whatever purpose they intend to follow through with. Again, if God ordains something, it cannot fail. Cause, well, He is God. "The President ordained the troops to attack Iraq."

Foreknowledge: This one is a little more tricky. At first glance, to us humans, this simply means to know beforehand. Easy. But wait. Then you see how the word "know" is used in the Bible. Such as, "Adam knew Eve..." then they had a son. Hmmmm...know is something more in the Hebrew culture. Christ also uses the term know in the same instance when He says "I know my sheep and my sheep know me." Then He says to those going to hell, "Depart from Me for I never knew you." Does this mean that Christ had no knowledge of them? Does the sheep reference simply mean that I know who Christ is and He happens to know who I am? Of course not. So, if we reference foreknowledge, with the strength of "know" being intimate, we can say that God "fore-loved" or had some type of intimacy with certain things and people (depending on the verse)

Predestine: Pretty straight forward here. To determine beforehand. One's path is already chosen. This word has never been used, to my knowledge, in secular or Christian writings to ever mean anything besides to determine beforehand.

Elect: Comes alongside the word "choose." So when we elect a president, we choose that President. Of course, we choose based on who that person is, or because of that person's works or actions. Since God is not a respector of persons, He chooses or elects much differently than we do. Of course, we can choose or elect something also, without a real reason. (not applying this to God) I can choose one cup over another to drink out of without really caring. So, not all our choices are based on previous knowledge or conceived knowledge. Not going to deal with the biblical reasons for this word quite yet. But, the decision of the choosing and electing, unless coerced, lies only in the hands of the one doing the electing, not the thing or person being elected.

Divine Purpose: If I tie in all the other words, predestine, ordain, elect, foreknowledge and take them to pertain to God, then I would say that the divine purpose, which is higher than our ways and sometimes a secret, is accomplished through all those other means. Making each of those individual words vital to understand and vital to be carried out. If any of these steps along the way go "wrong" or not according to plan, the divine purpose will not be accomplished. Kind of like the thought of the "butterfly effect". The divine purposes of God cannot be thwarted as find out in Job 42. There are many purposes but there is one above all others: God's glory to be exalted. That is the highest and everything else is literally dung compared to this one.


Alright. Let's hear from everyone else. What do you guys think?

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