Vintage Church

Vintage Church sets up to be the continuation of where Vintage Jesus left off. Vintage Jesus upset some people as they thought that Driscoll took too many liberties in describing who Jesus was. Although I disagree with them, it is hard for me to see where those same people will have issue with this book. This book is set up to be an open an honest discussion of what the church is. At some point, if you are a pastor of a church, you will be challenged by Driscoll and Breshears and even rubbed the wrong way in their description of what a church should look like.

This is not because they are purposely trying to demean churches, but they are taking the modern church and testing them to Scripture. Driscoll himself even shows in some places that he wishes that they were better at, or where they have corrected Mars Hill over the years. Again, this is exactly what makes Driscoll so attractive, he is honest with his mistakes while pointing out others. He hammers on emergent church designs and also the traditional fundamental churches, to make sure they return to the true calling of the church as a whole.

What I believe this book will turn out to be is a handbook for church planters or those who are desiring to test what they are doing within their churches. The book is set up like the others that Driscoll has done in recent years. Meaning, he puts forth a topic through the Scriptures and culture and then Breshears answers commonly asked questions on that topic of the chapter. Vintage Church sets up everything from answering questions on preaching, ordinances and church discipline to how to utilize technology as a church. This book is very practical and reminds me of "The Deliberate Church" by Mark Dever and Paul Alexander. The difference is that Driscoll and Breshears cover more ground and looks more into the culture and missional aspects of the church.

In the end, the readers for this book will be pastors and elders, and not as many congregants will enjoy this book like they did with Vintage Jesus. This doesn't make the book bad, it just makes it targeted. I felt that the book was really a grown up version of Confessions of a Reformissional Rev. That book told the story of the beginning of Mars Hill, and this tells the current story. This is my only "gripe" with this book is that it seems to more of a polemic for the current way that Mars Hill is doing things. So, when you get to topics like "What is a Missional Church" and "What is a Multi Site Church" the descriptions are more of what Mars Hill is doing and less of a general look into these topics. But, should I really expect anything less of a book written by a pastor who believes (as do I for the most part) his church is doing the correct mission of Christ?

I also did enjoy the reminders to big churches that not all churches should be big, and the reminder to small churches, that not all churches should be small. Criticism of each other usually comes from each side of the issue, but Driscoll and Breshears really exhort each one to do the calling that Christ has called them to. But, because Driscoll's church is huge, some of his practical wisdom on how to live out church are going to fly over the head of those pastors in small churches. Some of the things discussed in technology and multi site are just not going to be able to be utilized by small churches. This is fine though, because the book is for all to read, not just big churches or small churches.

Although this book could have been titled, "Vintage Mars Hill" or "Confessions: Part II", the book delivers a very good understanding of the church. My favorite part of the entire book was simply, "What is a Christian Church?" Driscoll puts to shame those who believe that online churches, or coffee shop churches are true churches. Driscoll walks through what a church should include to be a true Vintage, or Scriptural, church. I very much enjoyed this description so that one does not get together with a friend for coffee and call it church, or a church gets off target and loses focus of what a church should encompass.

If you are a church planter, or one that is about to engage in new church plant, pick up this book. If you are a leader in a church that is looking to restructure or desire to test yourself to make sure that you are a biblical church, pick up this book. If you are a dated church that desires to reach today's generation, pick up this book. You will not be disappointed. I would also highly recommend that one pick up The Deliberate Church and The Master's Plan for the Church
alongside Vintage Church for great study and great resources on the Christian church according to Jesus. Highly Recommended.

Link to Buy

Crossway

Westminster Books

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Why We're Not Emergent: By Two Guys Who Should Be

This book was written by two guys who couldn't be more different in their background and writing styles. Kevin DeYoung is the young, Reformed pastor, that takes this subject on a very subjective theological level, exposing carefully the doctrinal errors found in the Emergent church. Ted Kluck is just the opposite. Also, young, but a former athlete (he would love to hear that I said former), former semi professional football player, current sportswriter, and unapologetically sarcastic and whimsical. He takes on the subject much like I would, exposing the errors with witty banter and "low hanging fruit."

The book layout was great. Each author took a subject and then the chapters went back and forth throughout. So, you would get hit with the longer, theological, linear chapters of DeYoung, and then read the shorter stories and witty rebuttals from Kluck. I really enjoyed this as you really got the feel from two totally different perspectives of what is going on in the Emergent church.

The book's purpose is to really help people just better understand what the Emergent church is and what it does, or maybe better put, doesn't stand for. The main people that are refuted would be the same if you looked on any blog, namely, Brian McLaren, Rob Bell and Tony Jones. What seemed to be the main focus of the entirety of the book would be the Emergent's focus on Kingdom living, instead of the totality of the work of Christ. In other words, more focused on morality, than understanding what is the first importance: the gospel.

DeYoung and Kluck came to the same conclusion that I have with the Emergent church and others that think just like them, which would be the fact that they are reacting to the more fundamental, legalistic churches, but doing so in the wrong manner. DeYoung and Kluck show that some of the questions that the Emergents bring to light are true and helpful to/against the mainstream church in America, but the way that they answer those questions are not only wrong, but actually harmful, and in some cases, flat out heretical.

The authors did much research for the material, so much so that they went to the different churches and events of this movement to "get their hands dirty". I found this book very helpful and know that those who are in the Emergent church will just see this as another "conversation" not worth having. But, for those who are on the fence or are starting to understand the Emergent problems, will find this a very helpful book on understanding the things that are going on with the Emergent leaders.

Actually, the best part of the book was in the epilogue, when DeYoung went through the churches in Revelation with special focus on Ephesus, Pergamum and Thyratira. This part was very balanced and showed how every church should try to take the good out of each of these churches and learn from them and also learn from the admonishment that Christ gives each as well. Of course, in the end, the idea was for the Emergent church to take a look at what is missing in their movement, which would be the very strongest part in the Ephesian church: defense of doctrine.

I would highly recommend this book to anyone wanting to understand the Emergent church in more detail. I just hope that people are able to learn from this book from within the movement and it isn't just used as ammunition to debate with. Link to Buy

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Mark the Cussing Pastor

Alright, seriously, I am not a "cheerleader" for Mark but it seems as though of late I have been. I guess I just feel terrible for coming to conclusions about a guy and his ministry before I truly read about and took a good look at his ministry. This will be the last time for a while that I post on Mark Driscoll, I promise. Just one last thing I thought was of interest: Mark's stance on being called "the cussing pastor." I got this from the Acts 29 Network website and thought it was of interest. You can get the entire interview here.

Mark the Cussing Pastor


This infamous phrase is like the high school photo in the yearbook that you hope no one sees. In 1997 as the church was just getting started, a man came up from Oregon having heard what we were doing and was considering moving to Seattle to be a part of Mars Hill Church. Donald Miller was just getting started and had not published a book yet. At that point our church was very small and visitors stuck out. I took Don out to dinner to try to entice him to come back to our church. We went to a pizza place afterward and talked about the church. He really wanted to stay in Portland if a church like Mars Hill existed there. A friend of mine Rick McKinley did start a church in Portland and Don became a member there. For the first few years his book, Blue Like Jazz didn't sell many copies. He didn't even talk to me about the book but I must have said something over dinner that led him to label me as the cussing pastor. So over a decade later at a casual dinner my brand was immovably affixed. Don is a friend of mine but I just wish an off-comment at a meal isn't my defining moment.

What gets me into trouble is my humor. It is what keeps me sane. I have a stressful life and I fear that I will be the guy that shows up at work unknowingly with his underwear outside of his pants. The pressure and stress is great. I receive death threats. Our church has gone from 1,200 to 6,000 in four years. It is very intense. I have had no one else to lean on. So for me, telling jokes and being light hearted is my way of coping with stress. But sometimes when I get overly stressed, my mouth and anger gets me into trouble. My tone, my attitude and my mouth are indicators of how closely I walk with Jesus. I have come to realize that I speak for more than just Mark Driscoll. I speak for Jesus. I know I can't be this foul-mouthed, gunslinger for Jesus. I still think strong language and a prophetic edge is appropriate. But shock-jock language isn't.

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Mark Driscoll - Biblical Principles and Cultural Methods

I found this on the Desiring God website, along with many other videos with Driscoll. If you would like to see the other videos go here. Thought this video was interesting and wanted to get some viewpoints on it.

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Mark Driscoll - My Stance

After you read the following article I would request that you watch this video, which is a preaching that Mark Driscoll gave at the reFocus Conference last month at Willingdon Church in Barnaby BC Canada.

I want to start that this post is completely the opinion of this writer, Seth McBee, and is not necessarily the opinion of my church or other pastors in my church. The reason I say this is because I don't know where they stand completely, even though I think they would agree with most of my post here. This, also, in no way, is to diminish the view I have on my own church. This is merely a "run down" of Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill because of all the attention he/they are getting.

I also want to make sure that everyone knows this. I live up here in the Seattle area (40 min from Mars Hill) and right out of college I attended Mars Hill for a little while. When I attended it was back in the day (2000-2001) when Mars Hill met in an old church that was way too small on a hill in Ballard. Most Sundays that I attended we got there really early so we didn't have to sit in the side room or downstairs and watch him on TV. The church seemed to be literally busting at the seams. I only attended Sunday services and never served in any way, neither did I do anything for that church, I was merely a leach. I also do not know Mark Driscoll personally, I only know him through the books that I have read, the sermons I have heard (which are many, both live and on MP3), the conference (Resurgence 2007) I attended and through his congregants that I personally know. So, am I a "great" source to speak on his ministry? Probably not, but I believe I can give a pretty good opinion because of my involvement, but still not a thorough one, so please bear with me.

I believe that Mars Hill is one of the best involved churches that I have ever seen. When you go to Mars Hill or get to know the congregants (which I know many personally), the fire in their heart to see people changed for Christ is like gas to a flame. They are truly explosive. Most are young, in their 20's and 30's, but that is probably just a reflection on where the church is (location) and the age of Mark. But, the conversion of these individuals is as radical as I have ever seen. All churches can boast about the handful of people in the congregation who had "Saul of Tarsus like conversions" but at Mars Hill it seems to be the norm. People being converted out of a deep life in drugs, sex and rock and roll into a life where they no longer strip for a living, but have a small group in their home and feed the homeless to preach the Gospel. Mars Hill focuses their people on reaching the lost by being like Christ: going out to the sinners and not waiting for them to walk through the doors of the church. When we recently attended the Resurgence 2007 conference the people were great, they greeted us, served us, and then worshiped with us. Would their worship freak out RPW convictions and the traditional reformed faith? uhhh...yeah! But, so would my church's worship, so to me, not a big deal. From what I see and have seen from Mars Hill, the church itself is a God honoring church that sincerely preaches the Cross to the regenerate and unregenerate alike, so that those who are regenerate will continue to deepen their understanding of the cross, and the unregenerate, so that they will be converted.

Now, on to Mark Driscoll. Pastor Mark's church is really a reflection of his desire to engage culture (in a good way for the most part) because the culture is where the sinners are. It's not that he cares more about culture than the church, but the culture is where the sinners are, so that is why he engages. Notice I said "engages" and not "conforms" for he does not. Does he water down the Gospel? Absolutely not. He is a charismatic Calvinist and a reformer and is an expositor of the word of God, week in and week out. The hard thing for people to take in with Mark, in my opinion, is that is actually HONEST about his struggles. He is not a Pharisee in his practice or preaching and understands his calling from God. Does this get him in trouble with contemporary Christendom? Of course, religious people don't like honestly, they like to hide their sin, they like to look better than they are. I am guilty of this, I am guilty of trying to look better than I am, which I have recently repented of to my wife, pastors and youth group and asked for their forgiveness.

I believe that Pastor Mark is someone who traditional pastors don't like from a distance but would love if they were to visit his church and see the radical change that his people are experiencing. Some, always point to his language. Does this bother me? Yes. I do not enjoy when his language is coarse and unusually harsh. But, I have also seen preachers that are unusually dull and seem to have no excitement that they have been saved from their sin in the cross! So for me, this is not a "deal breaker." Another thing to understand about Mark is that he is not, again, is not emergent. He actually speaks strongly against Doug Pagitt and Brian McClaren and their false beliefs on Scripture and the atonement. In the end, he will probably be to the emergents (this could be an overstatement) like Machen was to the modernists. So, we need to applaud Pastor Driscoll for this and not continue to barade him on other things. He is standing up against some of his very close friends for the sake of the purity of the Gospel.

There are also some other ministries that Mars Hill has that I don't know enough about, but still have me "concerned" (maybe concerned is too harsh of a word). One of the ministries that I truly don't understand is why they allow "secular" bands to come in and have concerts at their church that are unpredictable (read Mark's book, Confessions of a Reformissional Rev, for a better understanding). Another that I don't understand, but don't have first hand knowledge of is their "Theology and Film" ministry. This is where people meet to watch film and speak about it and how it relates to culture and theology. Again, just don't see how this is beneficial.

I hope that if you read this, and are from Mars Hill, understand that I completely respect what your church is doing and welcome any comments from you...I actually encourage you to comment. If you are not from Mars Hill and have only read about Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill, understand that this church is not growing because of anything besides the word of God. The church has grown from 8 people in Mark's house to over 6000 in a mere 10 years. Pastor Mark said that they did a series on the atonement that was 12 weeks (which I listened to), every sermon was almost if not well over an hour, and every sermon was very much deep in theology and focused on Christ's atonement on the cross. Their attendance DOUBLED because of the understanding of the atonement that the Spirit yielded in the hearts of the people and many people were weeping in their seats. I know what you are saying, "Experience doesn't guide whether something is true!" You also must note though, that the Word is being preached and people are not just attending Mars Hill they are being radically changed.

Am I completely "sold" on Mars Hill? No, but I am not completely sold on Reformed Baptists, Presbyterians, Southern Baptists or Charismatics either. Do I believe that Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill are doing things for the glory of God? Absolutely. Do I think there are some things that they could do better? I must first change myself, before I could offer any help in this area. All I know, is that from Mark's preaching and the service and change I see in the people of Mars Hill it seems to be straight from God.

I think that others agree with my thoughts as well, as we can see John Piper, Mark Dever, Ligon Duncan and D.A. Carson starting to "join hands" with him in some respects. If you would like to read my reviews on Mark's books click here.

May we all be careful before we judge someone that we have never met, or somewhere we have never been.

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Book Review Highlight

Our book review blog doesn't get much play...and that's cool, it's new and up and coming, kind of like Giff Visick; hopefully. Sorry Giff...but you did get a shout out...

Anyway...I thought I would highlight a review I just did on a new book from the emerging church. Have at it, and me, if your so inclined.


I was pretty apprehensive about reading this book. I really didn't know what to expect and didn't know really what the approach was going to be with this book. To be honest, the only reason that I picked up the book is because I went to the Resurgence Conference and Mark Driscoll was one of the contributors. I am glad I didn't "judge" Driscoll for being a part of this book before I read this, because I thought he was distancing himself from the people that contributed to this book. After reading, let's just say that Driscoll is definitely NOT a part of what is commonly known as the Emergent church and he is really a lot different than those a part of the wider used term, "emerging church."

The only thing that I got from this book, besides Driscoll admonishing the other contributors (Burke, Kimball, Pagitt, Ward), is to make sure that our theology is put into practice. I can say that it did make me think from that perspective. Outside of that, this book was very shallow and far from, and I mean FAR FROM, biblical ecclesiology. Mark Driscoll had to continually "exhort sound doctrine" to these other "pastors" and return them to the Scriptures. Driscoll was the only pastor that truly held to Sola Scriptura, while the others look more to our culture and those around them to form their ecclesiology, orthopraxy, and most dangerous: orthodoxy.

The two "pastors" that people need to really be warned of is Doug Pagitt and Karen Ward. They are far from Christendom (which they would admit and happily accept) and should not be given an ear to listen to. Burke and Kimball were on the edge but still held to the complete authority of Scripture, although I would definitely not adhere to a lot of the ways that they practice their theology and more specifically, their ecclesiology.

Again, Driscoll was the lone bright spot and because of the far reaching post-modern ideas of the other contributors, Driscoll sounded like John MacArthur more than an emerging pastor. Througout the discussion, just when you thought Driscoll was getting "soft" he "brought it" again.

As far as the frame of the book, it is set up to give each "pastor" a chapter with the other four being able to respond to that pasor's contribution. The original intent was for each author to show their thoughts on the Trinity, the atonement and Scripture. I found only Driscoll's chapter to be the only one who "followed the rules." But, what else should we expect from these emerging leaders? The sad thing is that since the authors were so shallow, Driscoll was forced to defend basic orthodoxy and wasn't able to give a great in depth study or defense of the above said topics.

If you would like to read about these different views on the emerging church, I guess it is okay to read, but it is just so messed up as far as their thinking on how church should be run that it is hard for me to recommend. I am glad I read it so that I could see that Driscoll is NOT Emergent in any way. He is far from Pagitt and McLaren and should be seen as the lone bright spot out of these that contributed to the book.

Please be discerning if you pick this book up and like a Berean, test all teachings to Scripture.

Link to Buy.

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