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*image courtesy of Mars Hill blog
I would love to go to this event here in Seattle, but it seems as though Mars Hill was only given a minor amount of tickets and gave them out very quickly. So, I will be watching it on March 26th like the rest of you. Check it out, looks very interesting. I will say that the last time I saw Deepak Chopra, he was debating with John MacArthur on Larry King and was more heated than an IFB preaching against Hollywood. I will say that MacArthur did a fine job with handling Deepak's strange ideas.
Here are the details:
The devil -- also known as Satan, Lucifer and Beelzebub -- has become the primary antagonist in almost every major religion. He is seen as the rebel, a serpent and a fallen angel who tempts mortals into committing sin, and preys upon their despair. But does Satan really exist?
That question will be debated Friday, March 20, when "Nightline" tackles the controversial and sensitive issue in the third installment of the "Face-Off" series.
The "Nightline Face-Off" launched two years ago by asking the question "Does God Exist?" The Face-Off aired on ABCNews.com and more than 15,000 comments were posted on the Web site as viewers engaged in the debate.
The conversation will pick up with a debate on the devil in Seattle at the Mars Hill Church, moderated by Dan Harris, who covers faith issues for the network.
Watch the "Nightline Face-Off" Thursday, March 26, 2009, on ABCNews.com and at 11:35 p.m. on "Nightline"
On one side of the debate is Deepak Chopra, famous philosopher and author of "Jesus: A Story of Enlightenment" and Bishop Carlton Pearson, author of "The Gospel of Inclusion." They will argue that Satan does not exist.
Chopra is the founder of the Chopra Center for Wellbeing in California. He specializes in mind-body medicine and gives lectures and speeches around the world.
Pearson began his spiritual journey as a fourth-generation Pentecostal minister who enjoyed a vast following as an heir apparent to Oral Roberts. But his revelation almost a decade ago that a loving God would not condemn people to hell just because they are not Christian caused him to question the very existence of hell and the devil. It also caused him to lose the vast majority of his congregation. Since then, he has become an independent spiritual leader in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and preaches his message that God loves all mankind.
On the other side will be Pastor Mark Driscoll of the Mars Hill Church and Annie Lobert, founder of the international Christian ministry "Hookers for Jesus," who will argue that the devil does exist, and has made a personal impact on their lives.
Mark Driscoll is the co-founder and pastor at Mars Hill Church and also the author of the "Books You'll Actually Read" series.
The church, founded in 1996, has almost 8,000 members. Most of his parishioners call him "Pastor Mark" but, in a recent interview with "Nightline," he said, "You can call me Pastor Dude if you want."
Driscoll is often referred to as the "indy rock star" of the evangelicals. His 20-something members, who arrive on Sundays wearing torn jeans and sporting tattoos, are there to hear Driscoll's edgy sermons.
Lobert, a former Las Vegas escort, now preaches the Christian message in her effort to rescue girls and young women from the sex trade.
"Nightline" recently profiled Lobert and her organization, "Hookers for Jesus." Her mission is to save prostitutes from the streets and, if possible, bring them to church and to God. A one-time escort, Lobert now enlists other ex-prostitutes and volunteers from a local church to reach out to working girls on the street, in the casinos, even over the Internet.
Her journey out of the industry began with a terrifying moment. "One night I was just so desperate, I was telling God I hated him. 'I hate you. Look what you did to my life.'"
At one point Lobert was living in her car and was addicted to cocaine.
"[It was the] very lowest point of my entire life," she said. "Just hitting rock bottom. I took a hit of [cocaine]. I didn't mean to try to commit suicide. It just kind of happened. I had a heart attack and I remember everything turning black. Fading to black. And just this total emptiness and there was nobody there."
Thinking she was surely going to hell, Lobert's instincts kicked in.
"I said, 'Jesus, please help me. I am alone. Please help me.'" After surviving the overdose, she began to turn her life around and formed "Hookers for Jesus."
In Seattle, representatives from both sides will fill up the church to watch the debate. After, they will be encouraged to ask questions.
Last year I watched the Mars Hill Good Friday service, and have to say, it was very well done. Of course Red Letter played some amazing music as usual which made the evening that much better.
I will once again watch it this year, and interestingly enough, they have a live feed this year. I would go, but it is my youngest boy's birthday on the 10th, so I want to spend time with him.
The question I have is this: Can God die? I know that Jesus is God and he was and is the God/Man. But, is it accurate to say that God died on Calvary, or was it Christ's humanity that died that fateful day?
Here is the link to the live feed and below is the "trailer" video for the Good Friday service at Mars Hill Seattle this year. I also included under that the video from last year's service.
Vintage Church sets up to be the continuation of where Vintage Jesus left off. Vintage Jesus upset some people as they thought that Driscoll took too many liberties in describing who Jesus was. Although I disagree with them, it is hard for me to see where those same people will have issue with this book. This book is set up to be an open an honest discussion of what the church is. At some point, if you are a pastor of a church, you will be challenged by Driscoll and Breshears and even rubbed the wrong way in their description of what a church should look like.
This is not because they are purposely trying to demean churches, but they are taking the modern church and testing them to Scripture. Driscoll himself even shows in some places that he wishes that they were better at, or where they have corrected Mars Hill over the years. Again, this is exactly what makes Driscoll so attractive, he is honest with his mistakes while pointing out others. He hammers on emergent church designs and also the traditional fundamental churches, to make sure they return to the true calling of the church as a whole.
What I believe this book will turn out to be is a handbook for church planters or those who are desiring to test what they are doing within their churches. The book is set up like the others that Driscoll has done in recent years. Meaning, he puts forth a topic through the Scriptures and culture and then Breshears answers commonly asked questions on that topic of the chapter. Vintage Church sets up everything from answering questions on preaching, ordinances and church discipline to how to utilize technology as a church. This book is very practical and reminds me of "The Deliberate Church" by Mark Dever and Paul Alexander. The difference is that Driscoll and Breshears cover more ground and looks more into the culture and missional aspects of the church.
In the end, the readers for this book will be pastors and elders, and not as many congregants will enjoy this book like they did with Vintage Jesus. This doesn't make the book bad, it just makes it targeted. I felt that the book was really a grown up version of Confessions of a Reformissional Rev. That book told the story of the beginning of Mars Hill, and this tells the current story. This is my only "gripe" with this book is that it seems to more of a polemic for the current way that Mars Hill is doing things. So, when you get to topics like "What is a Missional Church" and "What is a Multi Site Church" the descriptions are more of what Mars Hill is doing and less of a general look into these topics. But, should I really expect anything less of a book written by a pastor who believes (as do I for the most part) his church is doing the correct mission of Christ?
I also did enjoy the reminders to big churches that not all churches should be big, and the reminder to small churches, that not all churches should be small. Criticism of each other usually comes from each side of the issue, but Driscoll and Breshears really exhort each one to do the calling that Christ has called them to. But, because Driscoll's church is huge, some of his practical wisdom on how to live out church are going to fly over the head of those pastors in small churches. Some of the things discussed in technology and multi site are just not going to be able to be utilized by small churches. This is fine though, because the book is for all to read, not just big churches or small churches.
Although this book could have been titled, "Vintage Mars Hill" or "Confessions: Part II", the book delivers a very good understanding of the church. My favorite part of the entire book was simply, "What is a Christian Church?" Driscoll puts to shame those who believe that online churches, or coffee shop churches are true churches. Driscoll walks through what a church should include to be a true Vintage, or Scriptural, church. I very much enjoyed this description so that one does not get together with a friend for coffee and call it church, or a church gets off target and loses focus of what a church should encompass.
If you are a church planter, or one that is about to engage in new church plant, pick up this book. If you are a leader in a church that is looking to restructure or desire to test yourself to make sure that you are a biblical church, pick up this book. If you are a dated church that desires to reach today's generation, pick up this book. You will not be disappointed. I would also highly recommend that one pick up The Deliberate Church and The Master's Plan for the Church
alongside Vintage Church for great study and great resources on the Christian church according to Jesus. Highly Recommended.
Link to Buy
Crossway
Westminster Books
Below is the video clip from Nightline on Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill Church. Overall, I enjoyed the clip. Stacy and I watched it and we, like usual, laughed at some of Driscoll's comments because he is hilarious.
The only thing that bothered me was that they portrayed Mark as seemingly only speaking of two things: Sex and Jesus. I would say that his haters want to paint that picture and paint it in a negative light, but I would say that Driscoll's main topic is simply Jesus. I did like that Nightline gave Driscoll some time to speak on the Jesus of the Bible, instead of the Jesus of the Victorian era. Driscoll states that the truth about Jesus, is the following:
He was a construction worker, who was very controversial, and got murdered
People don't like hearing those parts, or they simply glaze over them for the sake of their own sin.
As far as Driscoll speaking on sex, it is a shame that a pastor gets criticized or ostracized because he speaks so frankly on it. The reason is because other pastors won't speak about it. Pretty sad overall.
You will see when you watch the video the reasons why people love Driscoll and the ministry that God has given him. He is upfront, funny and captivating: all for the glory of Christ. I just wish when a pastor is like this that the media wouldn't say that he is good at "selling the message." That makes me cringe.
So, I wanted to give you an idea of what things look like around the church and the start of the Resurgence Conference. Because Mars Hill wants to be kind to its neighbors they have made sure that everyone parked away from the church so that businesses weren't affected by a huge stream of cars not using their services. For those of us around the Seattle area we were asked to park at Seattle Center and then we were shuttled in. Mind you, these aren't normal Chevy 15 passenger vans taking us to the church, but were remodeled Seattle Metro buses with tall the "stankonia" taken out of them. We went and picked up a group at the local Holiday Inn and it was funny to hear one of the guys say that he didn't get the memo on the dress code. He was way overdressed, by just having a collared polo and corduroy pants. Most of us were sporting our cargos or jeans and t-shirts. I failed to mention to him that you must also have a minimum of 3 tattoos to be admitted as well. :::Foyer of Church, Check In::: :::View from Back of Church "Sanctuary"::: :::Dr. Steven Crain speaking with people::: :::Driscoll doing a sound check:::
Like last year, when I arrived we were greeted friendly by those at the registration table and given some SWAG. In our bag this year was Pastor Driscoll's new book, Vingtage Jesus and also John Piper's new book, The Future of Justification: A Response to N.T. Wright. Of course I already own and have read Vintage Jesus, so someone will get a free book from me as an early Christmas present. As far as Piper's book, I was just reading some stuff online about it and so I was excited to see that I got it for "free" instead.
I arrived really early, so to get a good seat and have had the opportunity to take some pics on my iPhone. I hope you enjoy as I know that I will. I also found out that you can watch the conference online as well.
Here are some pics:
:::Shuttles from Seattle Center Parking lot:::
:::Front of Church:::
:::Internet Cafe:::
I am going to have two parts here. The first will be a book review of Mahaney's book on humility and the other is a sermon by Mark Driscoll. What I find interesting is that Pastor Driscoll does a lot of apologizing for his pride throughout this sermon. He even starts with a story of getting a call from CJ Mahaney with a focus on allowing the attacks against Driscoll to be a chance for humility. 
I haven't wanted to read this book for the mere fact that I am selfish and didn't want to be that convicted of my prideful attitudes. It wasn't until one of my elders read the book and told me what impact it had on his thoughts and attitudes of his daily walk, that I decided to pick up the small, but towering book of truth.
Mars Hill Seattle is currently doing a sermon series called "A Rebel's Guide to Joy" which is a study through the book of Philippians. At the end of every sermon before they are to take communion they have been showing a quick bio of the writer of the hymn they are about to sing for communion. I have enjoyed them very much and figured I would pass them on. The three that have been shown so far are Charlotte Elliot, William Cowper and Robert Robinson. Enjoy!
This last March, Justin, my pastor and I went to the Resurgence Conference with Mars Hill and Bruce Ware and it was very well done. If you would like to read my review of the conference you can see that here. I wanted to link over there as they now have the video, notes and Q & A sessions.
Hope you enjoy:
Uncertain Hands of God and Men: Providence in Process Thought and Open Theism
Independent Hands of God and Men: Providence in Classic Arminianism
Coordinated Hands of God and Men: Providence in the Reformed Tradition
After you read the following article I would request that you watch this video, which is a preaching that Mark Driscoll gave at the reFocus Conference last month at Willingdon Church in Barnaby BC Canada.
I want to start that this post is completely the opinion of this writer, Seth McBee, and is not necessarily the opinion of my church or other pastors in my church. The reason I say this is because I don't know where they stand completely, even though I think they would agree with most of my post here. This, also, in no way, is to diminish the view I have on my own church. This is merely a "run down" of Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill because of all the attention he/they are getting.
I also want to make sure that everyone knows this. I live up here in the Seattle area (40 min from Mars Hill) and right out of college I attended Mars Hill for a little while. When I attended it was back in the day (2000-2001) when Mars Hill met in an old church that was way too small on a hill in Ballard. Most Sundays that I attended we got there really early so we didn't have to sit in the side room or downstairs and watch him on TV. The church seemed to be literally busting at the seams. I only attended Sunday services and never served in any way, neither did I do anything for that church, I was merely a leach. I also do not know Mark Driscoll personally, I only know him through the books that I have read, the sermons I have heard (which are many, both live and on MP3), the conference (Resurgence 2007) I attended and through his congregants that I personally know. So, am I a "great" source to speak on his ministry? Probably not, but I believe I can give a pretty good opinion because of my involvement, but still not a thorough one, so please bear with me.
I believe that Mars Hill is one of the best involved churches that I have ever seen. When you go to Mars Hill or get to know the congregants (which I know many personally), the fire in their heart to see people changed for Christ is like gas to a flame. They are truly explosive. Most are young, in their 20's and 30's, but that is probably just a reflection on where the church is (location) and the age of Mark. But, the conversion of these individuals is as radical as I have ever seen. All churches can boast about the handful of people in the congregation who had "Saul of Tarsus like conversions" but at Mars Hill it seems to be the norm. People being converted out of a deep life in drugs, sex and rock and roll into a life where they no longer strip for a living, but have a small group in their home and feed the homeless to preach the Gospel. Mars Hill focuses their people on reaching the lost by being like Christ: going out to the sinners and not waiting for them to walk through the doors of the church. When we recently attended the Resurgence 2007 conference the people were great, they greeted us, served us, and then worshiped with us. Would their worship freak out RPW convictions and the traditional reformed faith? uhhh...yeah! But, so would my church's worship, so to me, not a big deal. From what I see and have seen from Mars Hill, the church itself is a God honoring church that sincerely preaches the Cross to the regenerate and unregenerate alike, so that those who are regenerate will continue to deepen their understanding of the cross, and the unregenerate, so that they will be converted.
Now, on to Mark Driscoll. Pastor Mark's church is really a reflection of his desire to engage culture (in a good way for the most part) because the culture is where the sinners are. It's not that he cares more about culture than the church, but the culture is where the sinners are, so that is why he engages. Notice I said "engages" and not "conforms" for he does not. Does he water down the Gospel? Absolutely not. He is a charismatic Calvinist and a reformer and is an expositor of the word of God, week in and week out. The hard thing for people to take in with Mark, in my opinion, is that is actually HONEST about his struggles. He is not a Pharisee in his 
practice or preaching and understands his calling from God. Does this get him in trouble with contemporary Christendom? Of course, religious people don't like honestly, they like to hide their sin, they like to look better than they are. I am guilty of this, I am guilty of trying to look better than I am, which I have recently repented of to my wife, pastors and youth group and asked for their forgiveness.
I believe that Pastor Mark is someone who traditional pastors don't like from a distance but would love if they were to visit his church and see the radical change that his people are experiencing. Some, always point to his language. Does this bother me? Yes. I do not enjoy when his language is coarse and unusually harsh. But, I have also seen preachers that are unusually dull and seem to have no excitement that they have been saved from their sin in the cross! So for me, this is not a "deal breaker." Another thing to understand about Mark is that he is not, again, is not emergent. He actually speaks strongly against Doug Pagitt and Brian McClaren and their false beliefs on Scripture and the atonement. In the end, he will probably be to the emergents (this could be an overstatement) like Machen was to the modernists. So, we need to applaud Pastor Driscoll for this and not continue to barade him on other things. He is standing up against some of his very close friends for the sake of the purity of the Gospel.
There are also some other ministries that Mars Hill has that I don't know enough about, but still have me "concerned" (maybe concerned is too harsh of a word). One of the ministries that I truly don't understand is why they allow "secular" bands to come in and have concerts at their church that are unpredictable (read Mark's book, Confessions of a Reformissional Rev, for a better understanding). Another that I don't understand, but don't have first hand knowledge of is their "Theology and Film" ministry. This is where people meet to watch film and speak about it and how it relates to culture and theology. Again, just don't see how this is beneficial.
I hope that if you read this, and are from Mars Hill, understand that I completely respect what your church is doing and welcome any comments from you...I actually encourage you to comment. If you are not from Mars Hill and have only read about Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill, understand that this church is not growing because of anything besides the word of God. The church has grown from 8 people in Mark's house to over 6000 in a mere 10 years. Pastor Mark said that they did a series on the atonement that was 12 weeks (which I listened to), every sermon was almost if not well over an hour, and every sermon was very much deep in theology and focused on Christ's atonement on the cross. Their attendance DOUBLED because of the understanding of the atonement that the Spirit yielded in the hearts of the people and many people were weeping in their seats. I know what you are saying, "Experience doesn't guide whether something is true!" You also must note though, that the Word is being preached and people are not just attending Mars Hill they are being radically changed.
Am I completely "sold" on Mars Hill? No, but I am not completely sold on Reformed Baptists, Presbyterians, Southern Baptists or Charismatics either. Do I believe that Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill are doing things for the glory of God? Absolutely. Do I think there are some things that they could do better? I must first change myself, before I could offer any help in this area. All I know, is that from Mark's preaching and the service and change I see in the people of Mars Hill it seems to be straight from God.
I think that others agree with my thoughts as well, as we can see John Piper, Mark Dever, Ligon Duncan and D.A. Carson starting to "join hands" with him in some respects. If you would like to read my reviews on Mark's books click here.
May we all be careful before we judge someone that we have never met, or somewhere we have never been.
