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Franklin Graham on Islam: Sadly, Most Christians Would Agree
Watched this video that Graham did about Islam. Interesting to hear his insights on Islam. There is much correction needed on his thoughts on Islam as a whole. Again, he describes the 1% of Islam, not the 99% of Islam. I wonder if he would like a Muslim to compare him to "Rev." Fred Phelps of Westboro Bapstist Church? Any thoughts, or questions you have when watching this video?
21 comments:
Seth,
Are you becoming soft on Islam? I think what he said about Sharia law is right on. Already this year there has been a bombing in Pakistan by Islamic terrorists. Just look at the terrorism around the world and you will find that the majority of it is committed by Islamic terrorists.
Where is there any religious liberty or tolerance in Muslim countries that have Sharia law? A very close friend of mine lived in Egypt and came back from there a yr. ago. Those who are Christians there, or who have converted to Christianity from Islam must be careful who they tell because they are in fear for their lives, even their own parents. Just look at how women are treated in Muslim countries where Sharia law is practiced. Women who are raped are disowned. There have been many women who have escaped from such countries and have lived to tell their stories.
Those Muslims who are moderate are considered to be opposed to Islam and Jihad and are just as likely to be killed for their lack of zeal. Just look at all the violence by Muslims against their very own people in Islamic countries.
The trend in Islam is violence, that cannot be denied by the facts. Do you understand what Jihad is and how it is a call to all Muslims to convert the infidel or kill him if he won't convert? Do remember the Muslims dancing in the streets with shouts of joy after 911?
Fred Phelps and his ilk are a very SMALL faction with very few followers and don't even represent 1% of Christians. Islamic facism is the MO of Islam otherwise so much violence would not be committed in the name of Mohammed. Just look back on the past decade of violence and terrorism that has been committed on a world-wide scale and how much of it is connected to Islam. Then try to convince the public at large that Islam is a religion of peace.
Darlene.
Am I becoming "soft" on Islam? Not sure what you mean by this. I will say that I don't believe what most Christians try to portray Islam to be and believe the media in our country loves to focus in on a "them vs. us" mentality by showing very negative aspects of the Muslim world. That is why most Americans love to point out the flag burnings and great celebrations around 9/11. Problem with that is that most of Islam didn't agree with what happened and actually came out quite publicly denouncing Al Qaeda and their terrorist activities. Will you read about this on the front page? No. We are Americans and need to defeat the enemy no matter the case, even if we have to ostracize and hyperbolize to do it.
As far as Jihad. Please do more research. Your view that you are purporting is strictly fundamentalist Islam.
The Muslims that are "moderate" make up 99% of all of Islam!
I do agree with you on the treatment of women. I believe that most of their thoughts about women, especially in the Sharia law is wrong. It has a lot to do with their view on the image of community and 6th century sociology. There are some other countries that are Muslim who have started to rethink these ideals and have much to offer in the understanding of women in culture.
As far as your friend and those who say that they are "Christian" in the Muslim world being persecuted...yes they are...and for historical and cultural reasons. It has to do a lot with European colonialization and what the term "Christian" means to those in Islamic cultures. Which is that they equate Christian with a western with Zionistic and Western political leanings and understandings. It really has little (if anything) to do with Jesus. If someone becomes a Christian in an Islamic state, they are fiercely hated, because they have basically said, "I am becoming an American, who loves Israel more than the Arab world." You can see why this would cause some stress.
But, let's also realize that if someone said that they were becoming a Muslim in most of our Christian families, they too would be ostracized greatly. Not as bad as some in the Islamic world physically, but most would spiritually.
You also say that the trend in Islam is violence. I could not disagree with you more. You would like to believe that because that is what you see on T.V. If you believe that then you must also believe that most Americans are murderers, rapists and thieves, because of your evening news. Be careful to not ostracize a total people group because of a few wackos.
There are amazing stories happening in the Middle East with those who care more for Jesus than they do for America or traditional terms only used by tradition and not the Scriptures.
If you really desire to learn, please listen to Carl Medearis at www.carlmedearis.com He will hopefully allow your eyes to see the beauty of what is happening when culture becomes secondary and Jesus becomes primary.
Hope this helps.
I pray that you will seek out more understanding of Islam's culture to understand that the bridges that have been destroyed, have been done unnecessarily. What is amazing is to see the life of Jesus and how he is building those bridges once again in the very nations he was from.
Thanks for stopping by.
Seth.
One other thought - Let's try to think about Islam as Christians rather than Americans. If we approach the issue as an American, then the primary concern is with Sharia Law, radical Islam, and fundamentalist groups like al Qaeda. Or, put shortly, we're concerned with a political power struggle.
But if the Gospel is the proclamation of a new kingdom, whose builder and architect is a suffering servant and whose values are upside down, then we can't think about like that. Rather, we should look to engage Muslims of all types as servants, seeking to love them and pursue their good. If that means we must suffer or sacrifice in order to love them well, I don't see how such sacrifices are any different than what we see from Christ in the Gospels.
The shortest way to say it is this - What do the Christian virtues of enemy-love, radical generosity, and fearless sacrifice look like when expressed to a Muslim individual or community? I don't think it's the Rodney Kingesque "can't we all get along?" mantra pandered by many in the USA. Our differences are significant and we need to talk about them. But I also don't think it's the combative, belligerent, dishonest and anti-Gospel ravings of men like Ergun Caner.
peace
i live in a muslim country and syariah law is only for muslim.
Christians thank God for the freedom to worship. although there are certain restriction and unfair practices, i would have to defend that not all muslim are as blinded as it seems. God is opening their eyes.
religious conflicts within the country are usually caused by political agendas.
Seth, I have a question about what you termed as "moderate" muslims. What constitutes one? Is it like a non-practicing Christian? I have spent most of the morning reading all the posts watching the 30days episode and reading the CT article. My question is the writings in Qur'an are quite specific and at times violent. Just because they don't follow them strictly are they now "moderate"? And what of Britian where the Muslims there are trying to have shariah law enacted on a much broader scale? My real question is if the Qur'an says what it says are the "moderate" Muslims really following true Islam or are they using a salad bar approach and trying to whitewash some other unpalatable parts? Is it really accurate to say 99%? Franklin Graham made his comments in light of what their holy book says. While I agree with you about Muslims being painted with a huge stereotypical brush it isn't without some cause. I find it painfully ironic that we've spent most of the last century or so telling people not to judge Christianity by "moderate" Christians but now are being asked not to judge Islam by devout Muslims.
I agree that much of what is presented "in the papers" is slanted and 'spun' to a particular agenda - Noam Chomsky was not too far off in his 'Manufacturing Consent'.
But let's not get off topic or focus on secondary issues (i.e. cultural differences or which percentage are the radical ones, etc.) The simple fact is that Muslims are people - people like you and I following whatthey believe to be the truth. Scripture is clear that, like Israel, there is a "veil" over their eyes as they look at the world and even at the Bible. And it is only the Holy Spirit who removes that veil and grants us the new birth through faith in Christ.
Are Muslims unfairly characterized a lot of times? Sure! But so are Evangelicals in all cultures but particularly N. America. In the end, who really cares? Our message is, and will continue to be, the aroma of life to some and the stench of death to others. I'm all for reaching out to all with the love of Christ, whoever they happen to be. But let's not confuse the issue by focusing on the secondary and missing that which is "of first importance".
Mike.
Those are very good questions. I will say when I speak of "moderate" Muslims, I would equate that with a true follower of Jesus who isn't trying to enact the Old Testament laws as binding on all nations. When I say 99% of Muslims, I am not saying that 99% of those Muslims are "devout" Muslims, but I am saying they are not of the fundamental type.
Put it this way. We have those Christians who are "letter of the law" types. Who believe that we should take the OT and that it is prescriptive for today's church and inact it. So, they believe that we should stone homosexuals, those who have sex outside of marriage and unruly children, etc. Would you align yourself with them? No, and neither would 99% of those who call themselves "Christian." But, on the contrary, are we saying that all of those 99% that call themselves "Christian" are actual Christians? No. We are just making a point that there are only a small minority of Christians who believe in a theonomic law system.
This is what I am trying to convey in regards to Islam. Do I believe the 1% or the 99% has it right in regards to Islam? In my studies, the 99% who don't believe in terrorism or Jihad as war against the infidels, are the ones who are closer to the truth of Islam than the 1%.
As far as the question in regards to Britain and Shariah law...I really just don't know.
Just know that those who are "devout" Muslims come in different "packages." Just as the theonomist and hyper Calvinist will call themselves the true devout Christians and you and I the pagan Christian.
Which I have been told by some hyper Calvinists before...
Hope this helps.
Wesley. (SnatchedfromtheFire)
I do agree. Jesus is the most important...and that is exactly what I am trying to put forth by breaking down cultural barriers about Muslims/Arabs in general. So many people can't see past a turban and terrorism to even start to love the Muslim and tell them about Jesus.
Christians have made this "us vs them" mentality. We need to see them and understand that they are made in God's image, Jesus is in these Arab countries and we need to show the Muslim the greatness of Jesus and show them how to follow Him.
The problem is that most of us would rather have the Muslim follow "Christianity" as a religion than Jesus as Saviour. That's a real issue for not only those in the states, but for a lot of missionaries in the field in these countries. They try to convert Muslims to be "Christian" (hear Westerner when I say that) instead of an Arab, living in their culture who loves and follow Jesus as Saviour and Lord.
Thanks for the comment.
Seth,
So you are saying that Shariah and Jihad are the equivalent of OT ceremonial/dietary laws? The only problem I have with that is the "letter of the law" type will have his hands full when he runs into Jesus in the NT and the things he said about fulfilling the law and the new covenant. In the Qur'an doesn't the prophet Muhammed prescribe the very violent things to which Christians object?(Meaning there is no later prophet who sacrificially dies in my place and is known for grace and love).I think it is a bit hasty to marginalize it as such as I'm convinced I would get a different story when reading the Qur'an.Where is the violent Mormon 1%? Or Amish suicide bombers? There are aspects of Islam that are violent and incredibly intolerant. If a Muslim doesn't wish to practice the violent aspects of it does it change the nature of the aspects or make them less devout? What defines devout? What is the "truth of Islam" to which you refer? Lastly, do you think they are moderate only because they live in democratic western society? Would they be moderate were it not for our laws?
Mike.
Good questions.
You: So you are saying that Shariah and Jihad are the equivalent of OT ceremonial/dietary laws?
Me: I would say to allow the Muslim to aid you in their understanding of these things. They would define them differently depending on the sect of Islam they associate with...meaning what they believe Jihad is and their thoughts on Shariah. I equate it to just show the logic of what fundamentalism looks like, not to actually make it a 1 to 1 comparison.
You: The only problem I have with that is the "letter of the law" type will have his hands full when he runs into Jesus in the NT and the things he said about fulfilling the law and the new covenant.
Me: I agree...but the fundamental Christian doesn't, no matter how far you push him on that.
You: In the Qur'an doesn't the prophet Muhammed prescribe the very violent things to which Christians object?(Meaning there is no later prophet who sacrificially dies in my place and is known for grace and love).
Me: I think I get what you are asking. Many Muslims take those texts and use them to promote war and then others show how those things were because of the war culture that Muhammad was living in. Same could be said of people who use the Bible for slavery, war and racism and some of us, who aren't idiots, use it for loving our neighbor.
You: I think it is a bit hasty to marginalize it as such as I'm convinced I would get a different story when reading the Qur'an.
Me: You probably would because you are an American with no ties to the Muslim world or the culture in where Muhammad came from.
You: Where is the violent Mormon 1%? Or Amish suicide bombers?
Me: Is this a real question? I guess we could just point to the Christian crusades and the role the U.S. plays in the one sided effort with Israel instead, right?
You: There are aspects of Islam that are violent and incredibly intolerant. If a Muslim doesn't wish to practice the violent aspects of it does it change the nature of the aspects or make them less devout?
Me: Depends on who you talk to. The 1% would say, "yes" while the other 99% would say "no".
You: What defines devout? What is the "truth of Islam" to which you refer?
Me: Same as I would answer for what is a devout "Christian". Whoever interprets their Holy Scriptures to their intended meaning.
You: Lastly, do you think they are moderate only because they live in democratic western society? Would they be moderate were it not for our laws?
Me: There are many moderate Muslims all over the world who don't want to kill you or beat their wives.
Seth,
Point well taken about interpretation. I never stopped to consider that the same issues we have with the bible they may have with the Qur'an. I don't know enough about US policy on Israel to speak on the subject. The Crusades though, yes they were violent and atrocities were committed on both sides. I'm just tiring of Christians apologizing for them when if memory serves me correctly they were in response to a Muslim Jihad that conquered the Holy Land.I'm not in anyway defending them but they were not unprovoked. Grace and Peace
Mike.
If apologizing for the Crusades will build bridges to point to the true Saviour in Jesus Christ, I will never grow tired of apologizing for them.
Sometimes, being the "bigger man" is the right thing to do, even if there is fault on both sides.
I am learning this daily.
I'm glad he had the nads to say that! He's dead on, it is an evil religion because it's based on lies and the denial of Christ. It is an antichrist religion and what the Koran teaches is violent. The exremists that you said are 1%, are just being consistent with their holy book.
Will (reforming baptist).
wow. I would have probably responded the same way a little while ago. But, I have to say that you have to remember that you are a pastor trying to shepherd your flock and I am not sure that you are teaching them what Christ would teach them. The reason I say this, and I say this carefully, is that you sound more like the Levite and the Priest who walked by the man who was robbed than the Samaritan who helped out an enemy.
I just wonder if you are calling for your people to love, bless and pray for their enemies or if you are just trying to ostracize another to show that you are right.
Will...have you ever befriended a Muslim? Talked to him/her about their Scriptures and tried to learn what they believe? Or, have you merely read apologetical books that show forth why Christianity is right and Islam is wrong?
I would challenge you to try and reach out to your Muslim neighbors in love and do as Christ would call us to do for our enemies: love, pray and bless.
Thanks for stopping by Will. But I do pray that you keep reforming :)
Franklin Ghraham is spot on. Mohammad was a bloody war-lord and his followers (the ones who bother to read their Koran) are as well.
We need to stop mincing words and start standing up on issues like these and expose the hatred and evil inherent in Islam.
Wes.
That's really not that helpful and I wonder how you would then describe God in the Old Testament.
we are called to love.
http://lawj.blogspot.com/2010/01/called-to-love.html
One would think that the majority of "moderate Muslims" would speak out against the violent ones and stage mass demonstrations over terrorist murders and polts to kill infidels.
But they don't. Only a minute percentage.
The fact of the matter is that "moderate Muslims" are irrelevant, because they do not want to say anything that may get themselves killed.
Islam is evil. Mohammed was a pedophile, a terrorist, a murderer, an enslaver of people, and his evil eligion was spawned of the devil.
Steve.
What makes you think that they haven't spoken out against terrorism? Because you haven't seen it on the news? Remember that the U.S. media wants to portray our enemies, as, well, enemies...you don't want to show that they actually might be made in the image of God and a nice and hospitipal people.
Still can't believe you called them, "irrelevant".
Steve...are you a follower of Jesus? I would ask how this comment shows any love whatsoever for the Muslim people...
Also...what you said about Muhammad needs some evidence...so if you want to come on here and rant...please provide evidence of your rant, or I will ask you to not come back and I will delete your comment.
Seth,
I am surrounded by Muslims in Fremont, CA. I have had conversations with them and witnessed to them. I encourage our people to witness to them, love them and help them just like any other person in a false religion, but the truth is - it's a demonic religion that damns millions of people. Trying to be PC about it only re-enforces the misconceptions that liberal fools like the woman interviewing Graham have in their own mind. They need to be slapped upside the head with the truth.
I wouldn't talk to a Muslim that way, I'd challenge their beliefs and claims without calling them "demonic" otherwise, all conversation shuts down immediately.
Will.
Have you befriended any of the Muslims in your area and discussed their faith without debate?
Might be helpful.
The quick ways you have expressed your ways here, shows zero love and compassion for the Muslim...I am sure your congregation picks up on that.
Make sure they know who the enemy is so that we can destroy them...in love...
Just because you use the words, shows no actual practical application...
And...it's not PC...it's called following in the way Christ called us to be with our enemies.
Just saying...be careful how you choose your words when dealing with others...unless of course, you just want to win a debate instead of win them to Jesus.
Grace and peace brother.
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