Contend Earnestly: Atonement Debate

Saturday, November 10, 2007

Atonement Debate


So, it is official. We are going to have an atonement debate/discussion. Since my official declaration of change of whom Christ died for, there has been a lot of reaction, both privately in email form and also over some blogs. One of those that showed some concern was Turretinfan. He stated that he would like to discuss my new position on the atonement in this post on his site.
So, here is what we are going to do. We are going to open the discussion with an opening post from Turretinfan probably on Tuesday. All are welcome to post comments and then I will rebut after the comments slow, probably a couple of days after the initial post.

Here is the whole premise. Turretinfan will be affirming the following:

Resolved: Christ's sacrifice has saved or will save each person upon whose behalf it was offered.

I will be denying that assertation and affirming that Christ died universally for the whole world, especially the elect.

I pray that this will sharpen us all and reform us to the word of God.

6 comments:

Dominic Bnonn Tennant said...

Interesting, Seth. I agree with you that Christ's sacrifice was universal in scope; yet I agree with Turretinfan that it will save each person upon whose behalf it was offered. From my point of view, you are both missing something :) Check my recent blog entries if you're interested: 'Thinking more clearly about the atonement' and 'Is salvation offered?'

Regards,
Bnonn

Seth McBee said...

Dom.
As you would expect...I am going to hold off on making any specific comments about the atonement until we engage in this debate. I hope though that you will visit often and enjoy the dialogue and give us your "two cents" on the subject.

I will try and prove, as I said, that it is affirmed that Jesus died for all, especially the elect.

I will also, hopefully, have ample chances to show that this is actually historic reformed thought on the subject. I personally believe that Owen really ruined this for a lot of people. They take his arguments without much study and fail to find the many holes in his study and presuppositions.

But...we will get to all this during the debate.

Hope all is well.

Dominic Bnonn Tennant said...

I'm looking forward to the debate, Seth. I have not done significant study of the historical positions myself so I am hoping to be educated on both sides. I expect I will be typically inclined to comment if I feel I have something to contribute.

Regards,
Bnonn

natamllc said...

I would simply add that there are two mandates, and I find both are sorely waning!

One mandate: Make disciples of all nations.

Second mandate: Preach this Gospel to every creature and then the end shall come.

Who is to JUDGE these things but God?

I have come to know this:

Eph 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ--by grace you have been saved--

Col 2:13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,

How do I "know" this?

The this that I know comes to me because of one Greek Word found only twice in Scripture, at Eph. 2:5 and Col. 2:13. The Greek Word is this one:

συζωοποιέω
suzōopoieō
sood-zo-op-oy-eh'-o
From G4862 and G2227; to reanimate conjointly with (figuratively): - quicken together with.


Now I am reanimated conjointly with CHRIST and I am now saved.

Now I am being "made" a Disciple and I am working daily to bring this Gospel of the Kingdom to "every" creature for a Witness and then the end shall come.

Will it come in my lifetime?

Well, we just buried the oldest member of my congregation, he was 93 years old and came to "know" Christ about 12 years ago.

Mysteries abound.

Let the debate sound forth then!

Anonymous said...

Thanks for sharing this link, but unfortunately it seems to be down... Does anybody have a mirror or another source? Please answer to my post if you do!

I would appreciate if a staff member here at contendearnestly.blogspot.com could post it.

Thanks,
Peter

Seth McBee said...

Peter.
Are you asking for Dominic's site?

Here is that site:

http://bnonn.thinkingmatters.org.nz/

If not...let me know specifically what you are looking for.

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