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Are Homosexuals "Born that Way?"
Tyrone asked a very good question, "Are homosexuals born homosexuals, or are they born into sin, like all of us, with this specific sin being their "vice?" I have gone back and forth in my own mind over the past couple of years with this issue. First, I thought, of course they weren't born that way, there is no way! Then again, I had no Scripture to point to. So, then I thought: Are we not all born into sin, some of us prideful, some of us lustful, some of us greedy, some of us, etc. etc. etc. So couldn't some of us just be born gay? This doesn't say that being gay is not a sin, for it still does, and still says that those who are gay, prideful, lustful, greedy, and the such still are commanded to repent and turn to Christ. But then I found the clincher that changed my mind once again.
Romans 1:27
The word for "natural" means in the Greek "inborn" or "produced by nature." This means that those that are gay are going against what they were inborn with: heterosexuality. If you look even further into Greek literature, Aristotle and the such, they also used this exact word for "the way nature intended" when using this word in their writings. I am not saying that they were writing about homosexuality, but they used the words when pertaining to the way "things were meant to be by nature." So, I have gone back to my roots, with Scripture this time, knowing that the homosexual is NOT born a homosexual. They are however, like us all, born into sin. They might have different struggles than we do in this particular sin, but they were not specifically born as a homosexual.
Romans 1:27
and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
The word for "natural" means in the Greek "inborn" or "produced by nature." This means that those that are gay are going against what they were inborn with: heterosexuality. If you look even further into Greek literature, Aristotle and the such, they also used this exact word for "the way nature intended" when using this word in their writings. I am not saying that they were writing about homosexuality, but they used the words when pertaining to the way "things were meant to be by nature." So, I have gone back to my roots, with Scripture this time, knowing that the homosexual is NOT born a homosexual. They are however, like us all, born into sin. They might have different struggles than we do in this particular sin, but they were not specifically born as a homosexual.
20 comments:
All sin is the result of the Fall of man. Therefore, all sin, including homosexuality, is part of the fallen nature we receive from birth in natural generation from our first parents. This makes all our natural inclinations sinful. Regardless of the exact form sin takes, it is result of our natural propensity towards the flesh.
Therefore, we must continually put down the flesh, and supress sin whenever it arises. A promiscious heterosexual person is just as guily as a homosexual one. In short, since all our natural inclinations from birth are opposed to God, we must look to His Word to define sin for us and know what is righteous and lawful conduct.
David and Josh...I couldn't agree more with your sentiments and thank you for your insights.
I think we all agree that at the beginning of creation God created the woman for the man, and the man for the woman. And the two would glorify God in their relationship towards each other. However, Seth quoted a couple of verses from Romans 1 which I feel is a result of what happens when man refuse to glorify God as their Creator and rather chooses to follow the lie and follow the creature (Rom 1:24,25). So, God handed them up, us up, to be consumed by their buring passions which resulted in them dishonoring their bodies. All sin came into this world for this very same reason all are a direct result of the judgement of God. Homosexuality, the disordering of nature, comes to this world because of the judgment of God. If we accept this, then we cannot say that His judgement cannot fall on a human at birth because we know that we are all condemned at birth.
I feel we all have something to add to this discussion; but as with everything, we need to find a Godly balance.
"All sin came into this world for this very same reason all are a direct result of the judgement of God."
This unfortunately sounds like you are making God the author of sin. Please clarify this one for any who might read.
God allows man to continue to exert free will. God allowed Adam to exert his own free will in chosing to eat from the tree. But what remains is God's judgement against sin, as man continues to be bound by his own free will. And that free will results in all manner of sin - we are given over to sin. God's judgement though has been propitiated at the cross - all sin types (if you will) are covered.
(Aside: I have 2 relatives - one, an uncle (unbeliever), now dead after reaching the age of 80+ years. He confided in me before his death that he had homosexual urges as a young man. He fought them - he knew they were wrong - married and had a wondeful married life. The other - my brother - had uncertainty about his sexuality as a young man. Lived and grew up in a reformed church, became an elder, married with 5 chn... but yet gave into the desires of the flesh. Separated, divorced, turned from christianity to buddhism, back to liberal catholicism....
The arguments that homosexual tendency is a genetic programmed trait sound plausible. My brother tries to justify himslef with this one.... But my 'myth busting' bible teaches me otherwise - especially Rom 1....)
(Anyone dare to comment on how to relate to ny brother who turned his back on the church, manipulated his family, left them with the scars of his temper and sin? He wants acceptance - I find it hard even to be with him...)
tyrone...I would again ascertain the Greek word here used in Romans 1:27 means that these men who are lusting and acting on that lust are sinning against their "inborn" heterosexuality. You have to go back to the original writing to see the great meaning of what Paul was intending.
anonymous...you bring out a lot here. Free will is one that I don't adhere to. I do agree with your thoughts on Adam having a free will in the garden but then he sinned and then "death" came. That is spiritual death. "if you eat of this tree you shall surely die." Eph 2:1,2...you were dead in your sins. To say that someone has a truly free will that means that they can truly choose good and freely choose evil. The problem is that before you are saved...Romans 3:10-18...no one does good, no not one. Also, in Romans 8:8 states that no one in the flesh can please God. So without the Spirit of God you will only do that which is evil, not truly free. Check out our post on Luther's 97 theses; it's pretty interesting. Again free will only came about with Aristotle and Pelagius who were scholastic (reason)theologians.
As for your brother, you must forgive him, that is your calling if you are a Christian. You must continue to direct him to the truth of the unchanging gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. If he is in a liberal Catholic church he is not in a church that will save him and in my mind, if he is in any Catholic church he will not find salvation. Hate the sin love the sinner.
Hope this helps and continue to ask questions, thank you for stopping by, both Tyrone and Anonymous. I really enjoyed your two guys/gal perspectives.
methinks seth that you read my post the wrong way. Sorry - I agree with you. The will is only free in the sense that it is in bondage to sin... ie it is free to sin. I agree 100% to TULIP...
As far as my bro.... how do you read it if he is under church discipline or excommunication? Treat him as an outsider? Be gracious to him as anybody else in the street? But how does one sit down to eat with someone who has turned their back on the church and it's discipline??
Even if somehow (and it ain’t happened yet) we were to eventually find genetic evidence of homosexual tendencies, this does not really affect the associated morality issue. It is just as likely that the same type of genetic evidence may one day be found associated with child molesters and serial killers. Is the answer, “God made me this way, so it’s OK?” Heaven help us. If the secular humanists and liberals have their way, soon no one will be morally responsible for anything!! Also, it should be remembered that mankind was corrupted physically, morally, and spiritually in the Fall. The gene pool has been corrupted by sin. So, genetic evidence of corrupt sociological or moral tendencies would be no surprise to me and would be no excuse in issues of morality. It may help explain it, but it doesn’t mean it’s right.
(this comment of mine was posted some time back at Green baggins)
anonymous.
If the church discipline is correct in your view...which I am not saying that it is or isn't because I don't know the situation like you do. But, if you agree with the church discpline Matthew 18 makes it very clear to treat him as an outsider and to not fellowship with him but only to bring him back into fellowship. This can't be easy but we must do this God's way and not man's way.
1 Corinthians 5:11 and Matthew 18 are very specific in their tones with those who say they are in the faith and yet continue in sin. But make sure you continue to try and "snatch them out of the fire" (Jude 23) and also we would all do well to listen to James' words:
My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back,
let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.
James 5:19,20
Be careful how you handle this situation and follow God's word. Try and snatch but know also, like Paul did, when to completely stop fellowship.
Thanks Seth - yes these are the verses which spring to mind.
anonymous...I hope I helped and may your decisions be only for God's glory,
Let me know if there is anything else I can do. If you would like for me to pray for you in any specific ways, let me know...you can also email me if you are more comfortable with that...
sdmcbee@hotmail.com
Seth,
Thanks for opening up your blog so others can interact in a constructive manner. I'm sure we're not the only ones who have been back and forth on this issue. So, I will not comment any further on this serious matter. At the end of the day the Bible stands. Glory to God.
God Bless
I think the Romans 1:27 passage does not really refer to the natural inclination of a man's sex drive is, rather it tells us what the natural function of a woman is regarding sexuality. The verse states that they abandon the natural function of the woman, not that they abandon their natural inclinations.
What is that natural function then? For the passage is speaking of homosexuality and the people, both man and woman, exchanging the natural function towards the other sex. I cannot explain this except that Paul was referring to natural inclination of loving the other sex.
What other function would he be speaking of?
The natural function would be the place that a woman has in sexual relations with a man. That is the natural function of the woman. It does not speak of what is a natural desire in a man, but what the natural function of the woman is. It just seems to me to be a different focus.
Paul could have just as easily said they "abandoned their natural desire for the woman" but instead he said they "abandoned the natural function of the woman." The woman is the object of the natural function, the man is not the object of what is here called natural.
I was looking for a picture of a fetus and found your blog. I think you should be ashamed of yourself for you statements on homosexuality.
Barbara...thanks for your deep insight on the subject...so your basic argument is "nuh-uh!"
If your going to comment please at least come with an intelligent response...thanks
Id just like to add my point of view on the situation. I happen to be a "homosexual", and just becuase i am, i try and view things as much as possible from the opposite point of view cuz realisticly....we will never have a definite answer as to if people are born gay or not. Its all just opinions. My question to whom ever cares to respond is What am i supposed to do? I have no sexual desire for woman what so ever.....obviously i do for men and have known that since the age of about 5. Of course back then i had no understanding of sexuality but knew what i felt. So in my case does god want me to fake my desire for a woman and have kids and pretend like im not sexually frustrated and basically live a lie. Or am i supposed to live alone and not act on my homosexual urges. So the phrase "people choose to be gay" kind of bothers me. Cause while i do agree with that i make the choice of lying with another man, i dont choose to have the feelings behind it that make me act upon it. Also comparing murderers and child molesters to homosexual is kind of stretch dont you think? Homosexuals are two consenting adults who are capable of loving one another in the same capacity that heterosexuals do. Not trying to start an arguement but i would like to hear opinions of others to help better understand myself.
and also do you beleive that all gay people are going to hell? Since im sure according to your beleifs that we are all sinners homosexuality is just another line in the long list of sins that humans are capable of. So are there some sins that are greater than others cuz if not we all seem to be in the same boat.......
I find it hard to believe that homosexuality is genetic. If it were true we should see a decrease in homosexuality as homosexuals normally produce no offspring and thus do not pass on that gene.
Well i dont know if its genetic or not ,but not all homosexuals choose to come out in their life times. I personally know a handfull of men who have wives and familys and still are homosexuals. Yet they cant bring themselves to accepting it and or are afraid of the social backlash from friends and family. Some very religious so also have that to deal with.
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