I think this video really clears a lot of things up. It sounds as though there is a lot of communication between Phil and Mark on these things. Being that Steve Camp has already changed some views on Driscoll, and Camp and Johnson are friends, maybe these are the things that need to happen so that Jesus is exclaimed more than mere men.
HT: Jonathan Christman
Seth
ReplyDeleteWell done!
Helpful for us all to see and ponder. Thank you my brother.
Steve
2 Cor. 13:11
Steve...
ReplyDeleteI have been hard on you in the past, but I will say that your humble admission in regards to Driscoll is a teaching moment for all of us.
Thank you.
He avoided the language issue as a secondary thing. Since when is cussing or saying lewd things in the pulpit a matter of liberty? I like Mark as a person, but I think he needs to just address his language problem straight up and forsake it and move on.
ReplyDeleteWilliam.
ReplyDeleteI have listened to Mark for a while now and have never heard him cuss from the pulpit...lewd things are up for discussion, but in my mind both things, cussing and lewd words, are more up to perception than anything.
I say this in regards to Driscoll, because I have never heard anything over the top in his sermons that would cause me to think he was being overtly crass for the sake of crassness.
If you think so, that's up to you and your discernment.
I will say that I believe the same as you, and so would Driscoll, namely, that cussing and lewdness has no place in the pulpit, for the sake of mere lewdness.
Am I the only one who--whenever I read the name "Steve Camp"--hears an internal soundtrack:
ReplyDeleteFire and Ice, darkness and light
Can never live together
Its day or its night
Its wrong or its right
Its one way or the otherrrr
With my life
MAKE IT STOP!
Seth,
ReplyDeleteI've heard Mark say these two phrases in a couple of sermons: "I don't give a damn" and "they don't know what the hell they're talking about."
The hand job comment that he laughs at concerning the passage in Ecclesiastes was inappropriate too.
If that's up for debate....well I guess everything is.
William.
ReplyDeleteYou have mentioned two parts that you feel are cussing...I am not sure when these were done and the context...context is everything with some of these.
Especially when you are referring to the "hand job" comment...
The reason Mark laughs is because of how stupid the guy is that tries to defend masturbation by using Ecc. 9...
Do you never laugh when you hear a moron try and defend his sinful acts with Scripture?
Even Elijah mocks and laughs at the followers of Baal in 1 Kings 18. This is all Mark is doing...I still don't understand what the issue is with this...
I also don't understand what you mean when you say "If that's up for debate...well I guess everything is."
You seem to be harping on three things you have heard from Mark and really staying the course with those three times...which can be, and should be put in context.
I'm not trying to be a "poop on Mark Driscoll" type of guy. I admire a lot of what he is doing and personally, he's the kind of guy I could be friends with.
ReplyDeleteBut to brush off his crudeness as "well that's open to interpretation" is letting him off too easily. I am an equal opportunity confronter - fundamentalists, emergents, neos, conservatives, libs, etc.
Ok, I'll try to remember the context because I don't believe in misquoting someone to strengthen my argument. I can't remember exactly which sermons they were in, i have watched so many of them...
The first one was in reference to a stand he was taking on an important issue and he basically told the congregation, "If there's anyone who has a problem with this, then frankly, I just don't give a damn." People applauded. Well, I know how he feels and I agree with the sentiments...not the choice of words.
The other one was in reference to some women's lib thing he was talking about and he mentioned how liberals were always trying to teach us what men and women can or should or shouldn't do, and in reality..."they don't know what the hell they're talking about." Everybody laughed.
That's the best I can do with context.
As for the other thing that he's been targeted for, he didn't have to bring it up, but he knows it's going to get a good laugh, so he's used it repeatedly. Sorry, inappropriate. And whatI mean: "If that's up for debate...well I guess everything is."
I guess there's nothing considered sacred, profane, appropriate or not appropriate...I guess it's all up for debate at this point.
William.
ReplyDeleteAlthough I would agree with you that I personally would not use those terms in the pulpit, while I use the term "hell" all the time as slang.
I understand that concern from you...I really do.
The Ecc. 9 thing, I just really don't agree with you on..
For me...I don't mind discussing, but not really that huge of a deal for me.
And you are right...everything in regards to context and what is sacred will always be up for debate and always has been.
This is an age old debate that we should always be pushing back and forth on.
I hope you are well.