Alright, this post might get me into some trouble...oh well...will try anyway. I am going to put up another post in a couple of weeks or at least a little closer to the Presidential Election on "Why Am I Supposed to Vote?" which will reveal that I have never voted in any election and to date, still don't plan to. You can hate me, love me or think I am crazy, that's cool I have got all these reactions in the past anyways.
My question comes to this point. Why do you vote for you do? Do you vote republican because that person doesn't believe in abortion or gay marriage? Do you vote democrat because you believe that they have a better social welfare plan? I just wonder why people vote for who they do. I mean people were willing to vote for a Mormon because he believed that abortion and gay marriage was wrong...doesn't that sound a little weird to you? Mormons, from their hierarchy, historically have bold faced lied, twisted evidence, changed words and their meaning and had "convenient prophecies" to change their views on certain issues...yet people were going to vote for Romney because he was Republican. That is really odd for me. A Mormon Politician? Isn't that like saying a Male Dude? Isn't that a dangerous redundant? So you have a guy who is a liar liar? Isn't there some song that has "pants on fire" that aludes to this?
I mean let's be honest. As long as Roe vs. Wade is upheld, abortion will stay, so no President can do anything for it. Look at what happened by voting in Bush because he was going to overturn this...it cost us a huge war and our economy in the toilet and gas going from $1.46 to $4 a gallon. And he did nothing major for abortion.
What about gay marriage? Am I against it? Yes, of course. But I am also against heretical preaching from the Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, Islam, etc. But, am I going to push a president into office to rid our nation of them? I don't think so. Plus, it isn't the gays that are ruining the sanctity of marriage, it is the over 50%of failed marriages that come WITHIN the visible church of Christ. So, shouldn't we worry more about the church of Christ than what the pagan world is doing? They do many things that are corrupt that we overlook just because we want to hang our hat on abortion and gay marriage. We vote guys in who love money and corruption, who lie and are deceitful, who divorce their wives (McCain), etc. But, as long as they stick to the anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage campaign then we are good...that is crazy.
People want to do more for politics than trying to change the problems that are so corrupt in the church. We are willing to do anything to just get someone in office that is opposed to abortion and gay marriage, but if they worship a false god, we'll overlook that. Or we'll overlook all the other sinful things that they stand for, just as long as these two "biggies" don't go through. I just wonder why these two sins are bigger than the love of money, which seems to be talked about more in the Scriptures than all the others combined.
So, what are your thoughts on this...this is just a rambling, so let me have it.
"So, shouldn't we worry more about the church of Christ than what the pagan world is doing?"
ReplyDeleteWell said.
Like you, my politics is straight down the middle, and I do not intend to vote this year.
I liked Huckabee, but wouldn't vote for him becuase I'd hate to see Washington corrupt him, as it does ALL politicians.
I learned from being a program manager that politics is all about appealing to the collective whole. And to do this, you must compromise. And there is no such thing as "win-win" in compromise. There's "win-lose less" but no "win-win". They actually teach this where I work.
Thus, the more you compromise, the more lukewarm you become. I believe there is scripture about becoming lukewarm...
Seth,
ReplyDeleteTo be sure, I would not have voted for a Mormon politician because of Mormonism's theocratic melding of religion and politics. For the same reason, I'd have a hard time voting for an evangelical, like Huckabee.
I know that sounds strange coming from a Christian today, but I guess that's what makes us (at least some of us) Reformed folk a bit different: attempting to maintain the proper distinction between the two kingdoms in this present age.
For this reason, I don't really align myself to one particular party. In fact, I took a stupid online quiz a few years back, and ended up being labeled a libertarian -- but if you read the platforms of most of those gents, they are often quick, uh, weird (and that's putting it nicely).
Anyways, there's my two cents.
Oh, one more thing: I never, ever, ever touch politics from the pulpit. Again, two kingdoms...
Stefan
Stefan.
ReplyDeleteYou make good points.
And yes...I am going to the OU vs Washington game...you will see me in all Sooner red...it will be fun stomping UW...although I wish they were a little better because it will be like playing a high school team...
Anyway...
I will post in a week or so, why I don't vote...I would be interested to get your view on that post when I do.
Hope the church is doing well.
As the church goes - so goes the nation.
ReplyDeleteYou have a pathetic luke warm pragmatistic compromising materialistic plastic Jesus church that is self centred ... so goes the nation.
Better to pray for true revival and repentance (of the church first...). And that's coming from a bloke who's country is even more secularly humanistic than America.
Maybe there might be some African Christians (ie who live and move and have their being in the continent of Africa) who might have the backbone to lead the nation of USA.... they certainly have the backbone to take on bishopric's of some Canadian Episcopalian churches which have become synagogues of satan.
Seth,
ReplyDeleteWe have much warrant in Scripture to be "actively" involved in the political arena these days. I hasten to say, being very very passive about my own Salvation, Justification, Regeneration, Redemption and Faith, I would not take one step in that direction unless Christ was holding my hand and the Holy Ghost was pushing me with His Supreme abilities of Sanctification so that everything I did glorified the Lord of Glory!
I just don't get it?
It is plain to me what these two verses mean:
Eph 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ--by grace you have been saved--
and
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
I began at conception "dead" and after birth I am destined to die a natural death.
How can this be that I am both dead and dying, growing up and growing old and one day pass out of this death into Life forevermore?
When God saw fit to touch my "dead" being so that I came alive and became enlightened, don't you suppose God was front and center for me? Yes, indeed He was and He still is front and center leading the way for me. I am a follower of Christ, the Risen Lord and Savior!
I would venture a bet with you Seth, that if God, the Lord Jesus Christ came to you in "exactly" the same way as He did Paul and Barnabas, cf., Acts 14:3 and told you to vote, you would, yes?
So I am fully embracing what you are saying hereon and I am saying also that Christ is actively right now doing what He was commissioned to do; which is "build a dwelling place for the Names of God to dwell in"; as in a "Church", cf., 2 Samuel 7. He was building it, He is building it and He will continue to build it until Almighty God says, "stop"!
Here is what Almighty God spoke one time and was recorded in the Scripture. Consider what "He" said and what "Jesus" said to follow up:
Joh 12:28 Father, glorify your name." Then a voice came from heaven: "I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again."
Joh 12:29 The crowd that stood there and heard it said that it had thundered. Others said, "An angel has spoken to him."
Joh 12:30 Jesus answered, "This voice has come for your sake, not mine.
Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out.
Joh 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."
I further would add, that you are not damned if you vote, nor are you damned if you do not vote!
But for God in Christ in Us by the power of the Holy Ghost, whatever you do, do it for the Glory of the Lord!
1Co 10:31 So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.
1Co 10:32 Give no offense to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God,
1Co 10:33 just as I try to please everyone in everything I do, not seeking my own advantage, but that of many, that they may be saved.
Frankly Seth you have a responsibility to vote as a citizen. By not voting you are setting a bad example and precedent that others might follow.
ReplyDeleteNow there are more issues at stake here than just the two which you evangelical (and RC) Americans Christians seem to get hung up about .... what about the issues of economics, social justice (globally and locally), oil, wars, poverty (in US and abroad), racial tensions, international relationships, health care, global warming, occupation of others countries, etc etc etc....
Seriously what does not voting or donkey voting achieve? What if all sound thinking Christians were not to vote? America has the blessing of being a democratic nation - use it or lose... Don't behave as a hypercalvinist and just say that God is sovereign and not accept your part as a responsible citizen of this world as well. If you were sick you don't just say with some sort of Christian pious fatalism that whether it's God's will or not I'll get better.. you'd go and get the right treatment and seek the right doctor... God acts sometimes through means... But you have the responsibility to find the right means.
You have the responsibility to seek out the best people who will lead your nation.
Keith, I think you missed the point of Seth's blog. He didn't say he didn't care about the issues you mentioned, in fact just the opposite. he said that most vote only on abortion and gay marriage, not him personally. That is why it sucks to vote. Even if you are voting on other issues, most Christians seem to focus only on those two. And to the comment about what would happen if all christians wouldn't have voted last election. Well Bush wouldn't have won, we wouldn't have all been let down and our country might have done better. I mean really could he have done any worse.
ReplyDeleteMaybe I am old and old fashion, but the last I checked, now reading the Translations of Scripture for over 50 years, many of them and in fact, on my computer alone, I have over 18 translations I can read from by the push of a button, the Scripture says this from the ESV:
ReplyDeleteRom 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.
and this:
Rev 1:5 and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood
So my answer to your question, "what would have happened", I don't know? I do know that all Christians would find in their Bibles those verses I cite above and we would be under warrant to rejoice in Christ's rulership over all governments, governments we like and don't like for whatever the reasons we like and don't like particular ruling governments!
Pro 21:1 The king's heart is a stream of water in the hand of the LORD; he turns it wherever he will.
Pro 21:2 Every way of a man is right in his own eyes, but the LORD weighs the heart.
Whether or not we vote, we are under this warrant of Scripture nevertheless or more?:::>
1Ti 2:1 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people,
1Ti 2:2 for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way.
1Ti 2:3 This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
And while we are mulling over whether or not to register to vote or even vote in the coming presidential election, here is something that we will and should rise up as the Body of Christ and do anyway, young or old, fat or skinny, White or Black, Red or Yellow, of every nation on earth:::>
Eph 3:8 To me, though I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
Eph 3:9 and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things,
Eph 3:10 so that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places.
Eph 3:11 This was according to the eternal purpose that he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord,
Eph 3:12 in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through our faith in him.
I am now off to pray! :)
I am a believer in the Two Kingdoms Doctrine.
ReplyDeleteAs we are bot saint and sinner (simultaneously), we are both citizens of Heaven and of this world.
As citizens and stewards of this world we owe it to our neighbor to do the best we can in order to make life as good, and safe, as possible for them.
I don't care who you vote for, but I do think it is a good thing, if not for you, then do it for your neighbor.
Seth, we live in America and because we do and do so by choice, we are governed by a political process in the wordly, render unto Caesar sense.
ReplyDeleteWhat has Bush done about abortion? As much as he could regarding executive orders to limit the federal government sponsorship of abortion and stem cell research. Placed on the Supreme Court Justices Alito and Roberts, setting us one justice away from Roe V Wade. The next President will replace at least one of the pro-abortion justices, so if we elect John McCain we could see Roe V Wade fall in the next few years.
I vote generally Republican because of the party stance on abortion and gay marriage, but also because historically the GOP has stood for smaller government, lower taxes and stronger national defense. This isn't a theological question for me. God is sovereign and His will will be done, and whoever occupies the White House will be there by the will of God. But the people we vote for decide whether or not we fund abortion, whether we solemnize gay marriage, whether we allow tyrants to oppress people.
(BTW, there is a lot more to the economic woes and oil prices than the liberation of Iraq.)