tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post8122995076809379370..comments2023-10-25T02:18:43.690-07:00Comments on Contend Earnestly: Refutation of Dr. John Goetsch against Calvinism - IntroSeth McBeehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08765679934165890595noreply@blogger.comBlogger52125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post-2779509074579206102009-06-27T19:35:16.786-07:002009-06-27T19:35:16.786-07:00Seth, I have to say I heard Dr. Goetch speak at Ca...Seth, I have to say I heard Dr. Goetch speak at Camp Joy in Whitewater, WI. and He was truly a blessing. His work has let to the Salvation of many, and two just during the week. This article you have posted and your slanderous comments have not led to the salvation of anyone, and only cause people to be turned off from a man that could lead them to repentance. <br /><br />I would challenge you to search the scriptures and your own heart to see if you are really serving Christ the way you should be. Are you following his will by trying to lay a snare at the feet of those who bring the Gospel to the unsaved? <br /><br />We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.<br />1 John 3:14Joshua Lindseynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post-68069122683727278282009-05-29T23:39:41.681-07:002009-05-29T23:39:41.681-07:00This is why so many people are going straight to h...This is why so many people are going straight to hell. The reason is that us Christians are so caught up in arguments and discussing things that really don't matter instead of focusing on soul winning! Invest your time in reading the Bible, in prayer & witnessing and you won't have time to argue on this nonsense.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post-12187084578418133882009-05-04T11:31:00.000-07:002009-05-04T11:31:00.000-07:00Hello,
First, I would like to say that I am surpri...Hello,<br />First, I would like to say that I am surprised at the childishness of many of these comments. It is okay to each voice our own opinions, but I thought that keeping it civil was just common nature to mature children of God, which I would hope is something that we all have in common.<br />Secondly, Dr. Goetsch is my father-in-law, and you can ask ANYONE who knows him(apparently none of you do), he is one of the wisest men I know, and he would never just throw a statement of opinion out there in a malicious manner. If he put it out there for the public to see, it is because God laid it on his heart.<br />So, what I am saying is, instead of critisizing a name that you dont even know, why not hold to his standard of wisdom and professionalism, and write an article yourself, (after much prayer, research, and Bible study, of course) of what you believe.<br />-Aagoetschhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16204693159599197005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post-73651461714052720472009-04-05T13:00:00.000-07:002009-04-05T13:00:00.000-07:00Seth, I think you need to ease up on Anonymous. Fi...Seth,<BR/> I think you need to ease up on Anonymous. First of all, he's not a coward for hiding behind anonymity. That's just...um...humility. And he makes good points about how relying on God's grace as the monergistic cause, author, and perfector of our salvation just leads to "worldliness." Next thing you know, you'll be wearing your fedora cocked crooked and driving a motorcar. I just hope all this really great holy bean-counting is enough for Anonymous to keep his salvation in his hands and not drop it. <BR/><BR/>Oh, wait. Friend, if it's really in your hands, <BR/>YOU <BR/>WILL <BR/>DROP <BR/>IT.Zachary Bartelshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13188521505536660574noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post-64127471238506111322009-04-04T09:10:00.000-07:002009-04-04T09:10:00.000-07:00Hypothetically we could say that everyone could be...Hypothetically we could say that everyone <I>could</I> be one of the elect from a human perspective, but the Bible tells us differently when it tells us that many are called and few are chosen, that the road leading to death is wide, etc, etc. <BR/><BR/>So, we know that not everyone is elect. We don't know who is elect and who is not, but the only way for me personally to know I am elect is to look to Christ and his work. <BR/><BR/>This has "consequences". My life is changed, my desires are changed, my mind is upward, I am affected by my sin inwardly, etc. But, these things don't guarantee my election or give me full assurance...only Christ can do this. I am fallen, in the flesh and very sinful. <BR/><BR/>Like Luther said, the more mature a man becomes the more his sin is before his face. <BR/><BR/>I hope this helps...keep asking away.Seth McBeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08765679934165890595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post-78945999355046752192009-04-04T08:34:00.000-07:002009-04-04T08:34:00.000-07:00Seth,If you are sure that you are one of the elect...Seth,<BR/>If you are sure that you are one of the elect because of Christ's work, than everyone can be one of the elect. Is that what you're saying?Connerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11796503568218323819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post-22970349560214662652009-04-03T05:10:00.000-07:002009-04-03T05:10:00.000-07:00Anonymous. Seriously? Use your same logic...don't...Anonymous. <BR/><BR/>Seriously? Use your same logic...don't waste your time reading blogs and commenting, get a life and start reaching people. <BR/><BR/>You act as if you know me. You act as if this is all I do. <BR/><BR/>Why does theology matter? Because Jesus is theology and tells us it matters. <BR/><BR/>So, thanks for telling me to get a life and reminding me to reach people...good thoughts, but misplaced to be honest.Seth McBeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08765679934165890595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post-36484795070061327802009-04-02T19:31:00.000-07:002009-04-02T19:31:00.000-07:00I think the real thing you guys need to do is get ...I think the real thing you guys need to do is get a life and start reaching people. Stop arguing about this, why does it really matter?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post-31252846731843501832009-02-06T12:39:00.000-08:002009-02-06T12:39:00.000-08:00Conner. Good question. And you can ask any questi...Conner. <BR/><BR/>Good question. And you can ask any question that you would like. <BR/><BR/>As far as how I know that I am predestined? <BR/><BR/>I know that I am one of the elect because of the life, death and resurrection of Christ. <BR/><BR/>Calvin said it very eloquently: <BR/><BR/><I>Jesus is the mirror of your election</I><BR/><BR/>Although, I believe in duty faith, it is all about Christ, not about me or my works. Although out of my faith, works will come because I love him. But my assurance of election is all based on Christ and what he has done, not based on what I have done. <BR/><BR/>Because let's be honest. The more and more we look to ourselves the more we see our sin. <BR/><BR/>This is what happened to Isaiah in Isaiah 6. He saw the Christ and fell to the ground saying, "I am undone." <BR/><BR/>So, the way I am assured of salvation is because of the work of Christ.Seth McBeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08765679934165890595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post-79821118457206678172009-02-06T12:33:00.000-08:002009-02-06T12:33:00.000-08:00hi seth,my name is Conner and i will be attending ...hi seth,<BR/>my name is Conner and i will be attending west coast baptist college this fall where i will be learning homiletics from Dr. Goetsch. so i guess i am what you call an "IFB." and there are many questions that i would like to ask you. first of all, seeing as you are a calvinist, what makes you think that you are one of the predestined ones that will be going to heaven?Connerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11796503568218323819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post-15814943028978139752009-01-07T12:57:00.000-08:002009-01-07T12:57:00.000-08:00James. (good to have a name)You said: Anyways, I ...James. (good to have a name)<BR/><BR/>You said: <I><BR/>Anyways, I am a little amazed that you don't believe that our good works and fruits don't please God and provide blessings for us!</I><BR/><BR/>Me Now: Don't change my words. I choose them carefully. I said that God isn't impressed with our works, and was refuting your usage of that wording and attribute of God. You have now gone from using impressed to pleased. Those are totally different words. Is God pleased with our good works? If they are for his glory, then of course. If they are for our pride, then no. But impressed? No. God is only impressed with himself alone. <BR/><BR/>You Now: <I><BR/>God is willing that all should come to repentance not just the elect. I DO believe that God knows who will and will not be saved but I DON'T, neither do you. The fact that I do not know drives me to tell the lost and to fulfill the Great Commission as commanded by God in Matthew 28:19-20, GO YE, yes, you and me.</I><BR/><BR/>Me: I agree with all of this, so no argument here. <BR/><BR/>You Now: <I><BR/>It is not for vain-glory ,once again, but simply because we are commanded!</I><BR/><BR/>Me: I would disagree with this statement. We don't do things merely because we are told to, but because we love our God who died for us and cares for us. Same as a father/child relationship. If the child is doing things just because he is told and not out of love, then the father is not pleased. This is a huge difference, where one is Pharisaical and the other is true Christianity. <BR/><BR/>You Now: <I><BR/><BR/>Before I answer the question about fellowship with the lost, what do you mean by secular?</I><BR/><BR/>Me: Anything that is not distinctly Christian. Secular does not equal sin nor does secular=worldly (biblical definition of)<BR/><BR/>I really don't understand what this means: <BR/><BR/><I>and other types of activities but it would be limited time because I would not want my testimony to be influenced by worldly philosophy and thinking.</I><BR/><BR/>I don't know what you are getting at here. <BR/><BR/>Hope all is well. <BR/><BR/>Don't let the bears get you :)Seth McBeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08765679934165890595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post-35475741661649327492009-01-07T10:26:00.000-08:002009-01-07T10:26:00.000-08:00Seth: Some of your comments did make me laugh, esp...Seth: Some of your comments did make me laugh, especially the one on parted hair and lame suits. Well some of us may have better taste in suits than you! :)<BR/><BR/>Anyways, I am a little amazed that you don't believe that our good works and fruits don't please God and provide blessings for us! Although we are not saved by our works ( For by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves it is the gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast.) He does bless our obedience. Not for our vainglory but for His glory and the fact that He loves us so much! <BR/><BR/>As far as believing that no man or preacher is above being corrected, I do not believe that at all. I just think He is right and you are wrong. God is willing that all should come to repentance not just the elect. I DO believe that God knows who will and will not be saved but I DON'T, neither do you. The fact that I do not know drives me to tell the lost and to fulfill the Great Commission as commanded by God in Matthew 28:19-20, GO YE, yes, you and me. How can you escape and explain away that clear statement, verse, and fact? It is not for vain-glory ,once again, but simply because we are commanded!<BR/><BR/>Before I answer the question about fellowship with the lost, what do you mean by secular? Yea, I would go out to eat with a lost person ( I have already, many times)and other types of activities but it would be limited time because I would not want my testimony to be influenced by worldly philosophy and thinking. My sole purpose would be to see that person saved. <BR/><BR/>Giving Him All The Glory! James WashburnAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post-87909506480229157492009-01-06T20:32:00.000-08:002009-01-06T20:32:00.000-08:00associatetex...Bro...or sis...whomever...Slow your...associatetex...<BR/><BR/>Bro...or sis...whomever...<BR/><BR/>Slow your role man. You tell me to "be careful about how I talk to true men of God"? Come on now...is he above correction? I hesitate to even comment about your ignorant comments on this matter. I wrote to "Dr." Goetsch many times asking for him to check out the article, which I believe he did with no response. I actually tried to contact him before I wrote any of the articles on the matter with no response. <BR/><BR/>And by just bringing up Elisha being made fun of the youth for being bald you show some wild extremism for Dr. Goetsch and exegetical content on your end. <BR/><BR/>As far as biblical content and exegesis, no one is above correction or study...take a gander at the Bereans with Paul and Priscilla and Aquilla with Apollos. I wasn't making fun of Dr. Goetsch's lame suits, or parted hair, which I have owned and sported in the past, I was simply writing a refutation on his bogus article that was ill informed in which he acted as though he spoke with some authority when in actuality he was speaking with complete ignorance. So this "true man of God" needed some serious correction from his bold remarks against theologies that are far above his head. <BR/><BR/>You also ask, <I>"Do you think it's ok to hang out with those who are not saved and participate in worldly activities with them?</I><BR/><BR/>You would have to define worldly for me before I would answer this. If you mean secular...yeah, I would participate in secular activities with them. If you mean, would I participate in sin with them...no. <BR/><BR/>With your harboring on your door knocking and thinking that God is impressed with you made me laugh and wish that God would send some bears your way to at least growl at you. :)<BR/><BR/>you might want to check your works and ask why you do them. If it is because you believe God is impressed or because you earn grace or favor with God, you are mistaken of what the gospel stands for. <BR/><BR/>Keep coming and asking questions...I really don't mind conversing with you...<BR/><BR/>Late. <BR/><BR/>Hope this finds you wellSeth McBeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08765679934165890595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post-70719650508680935682009-01-06T09:52:00.000-08:002009-01-06T09:52:00.000-08:00Seth: First- You should be more careful about how ...Seth: First- You should be more careful about how you talk about true Men of God like Dr. John Goetsch. (I am reminded of the Prophet who was made fun of by a group of kids, who were eventually attacked by She-bears sent by God. I am not saying this would happen to you but I would be a little more a careful...) Second- Do you think it's ok to hang out with those who are not saved and participate in worldly activities with them? I was a little unclear about your statement about being "set apart". Now I believe it is good to become friends with a lost person, with the clear goal in mind of trying to eventually lead them to our savior! I DO NOT believe it is ok just to hang out with sinners just to let them know I accept them for who they are spiritually. The Bible says in Romans 12:2, And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect will of God." The next verse, verse three, leads me to my last thought. The Bible says,"... not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think but to think soberly... ( seriously). By saying I knock 50-100 doors a week looking for lost souls is not really being prideful but truthful. When I asked if you knocked doors for lost souls, I was not being prideful, thinking of myself as being better than you but it was a serious(sober)question. I believe it does impress God when we do what he command and many times He reward us for it! I serve a good God not a slave-driver. I believe there will be crowns in Heaven that we can throw at Jesus feet for our obedience. The Bible says, "by their fruits you shall know them." That is not being Pharisaical, God says show your fruits of salvation. By the way I don't believe in works salvation,it's only by Christ's atonement on the cross and our repentance that we can be saved! (Romans 10:9 and so many more verses.) I do believe when we are saved we are suppose to be different inwardly and outwardly! It's not to be Pharisaical but so that others can see a change in us!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post-46251023195126655502009-01-05T11:06:00.000-08:002009-01-05T11:06:00.000-08:00associatetex: Thanks for the comment. Let me take...associatetex: <BR/><BR/>Thanks for the comment. Let me take this one at a time. <BR/><BR/>First you say: <BR/><BR/><I>Well I have to say that I was a little offended when I saw your comments about Dr. John Goetsch, being that he led me to the Lord in Homiletics class. If you ever have known the man, you would see he is a spiritual giant for the faith but also kind, wise, and a phenomenal preacher. </I><BR/><BR/>Me now: <BR/><BR/>His article in that paper showed none of the above qualities that you commented on above. The article is an embarrassment for anyone that wants to be taken seriously exegetically. <BR/><BR/>You Now: <BR/><BR/><I>But that is not what I am writing about. I was a little caught off guard about the statement that Independent Fundamental Baptists or IFB's as you call us, are to spiritual and self righteous to come in contact with sinners or the lost.</I><BR/><BR/>Me Now: <BR/><BR/>Where did I say this? I don't think I said that you never come <I>in contact</I> with sinners. What I will say is that the IFB preachers are pretty strong in their teaching that they should never be seen out of their suit by their parishioners and that they must be "set apart" from them. Again, what you wear does not do this. If this is the attitude of the pastors it will trickle down to the others and while you may come in "contact" with sinners you will never be charged with being the friend of sinners, which our Christ was charged. <BR/><BR/>You Now: <BR/><I>I would have to say that was a false accusation about IFB's. A main part of my ministry week is knocking at least 50-100 doors to tell sinners about Christ. Do you do that sir? How committed are you to telling the lost about Christ or is it the fact that some are chosen to be saved and some are not?</I><BR/><BR/>Me Now: <BR/>Good question to ask, but I have to say that your 50-100 doors that you knock on will not save you or impress God. And, I will not tell you what I do to try and save sinners, that is between me and God, not bulletin board material to show my good works for all to know. One is Pharisaical and one is the attitude of a blood bought, thankful Christian...you be the judge biblically. <BR/><BR/>If you have anything more, please let me know, I would be happy to answer your questions.Seth McBeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08765679934165890595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post-66073059649099222262009-01-03T16:40:00.000-08:002009-01-03T16:40:00.000-08:00Well I have to say that I was a little offended wh...Well I have to say that I was a little offended when I saw your comments about Dr. John Goetsch, being that he led me to the Lord in Homiletics class. If you ever have known the man, you would see he is a spiritual giant for the faith but also kind, wise, and a phenomenal preacher. But that is not what I am writing about. I was a little caught off guard about the statement that Independent Fundamental Baptists or IFB's as you call us, are to spiritual and self righteous to come in contact with sinners or the lost. It is funny because any IFB that I have ever met was a dedicated soul-winner. We take the verses in Matthew 28:19-20 literally where the Bible says, "go ye therefore." Soul-winning is one of our fundamentals of the faith, and we are always in contact with sinners trying desperately to tell them about what Christ has done for them. I would have to say that was a false accusation about IFB's. A main part of my ministry week is knocking at least 50-100 doors to tell sinners about Christ. Do you do that sir? How committed are you to telling the lost about Christ or is it the fact that some are chosen to be saved and some are not?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post-14241799250651757602008-08-24T18:13:00.000-07:002008-08-24T18:13:00.000-07:00anonymous...Let me be more harsh...Go away...don't...anonymous...<BR/><BR/>Let me be more harsh...<BR/><BR/>Go away...don't comment here any more. <BR/><BR/>You obviously aren't getting it.Seth McBeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08765679934165890595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post-33789605991832058852008-08-23T20:55:00.000-07:002008-08-23T20:55:00.000-07:00Cool man...good to talk to you...glad you think I ...Cool man...good to talk to you...glad you think I call Paul and John liars...<BR/><BR/>Brutal..<BR/><BR/>Amazing you can't answer questions about your faith straight forward. <BR/><BR/>You say I have purposely misrepresented your views? How? Where? <BR/><BR/>Never set up a straw man...just asked you questions and you don't answer. And I have answered your questions based on your Scripture passages. <BR/><BR/>Again. <BR/><BR/>If you believe that you are without sin and you don't sin anymore John himself calls you a liar and the truth is not in you. <BR/><BR/>I will not allow your comments to come through any further. Have fun in Eden. <BR/><BR/>Late.Seth McBeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08765679934165890595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post-84638319040043879682008-08-23T20:45:00.000-07:002008-08-23T20:45:00.000-07:00It is sad to see the debate descend to this, but t...It is sad to see the debate descend to this, but this is where a cornered Calvinist will take it--the sewer. You have purposely misrepresented my views, my plain statements, you have deliberately set up these straw-men because you have NO ANSWER to the numerous Scriptures I posted, and hence, tis not I who is the liar, but YOU who have proven yourself to be a liar. Your arrogance, cloaked under a lame facade of humility deceives NO ONE who knows the Word of God and the Spirit of God. You do not trust Christ, but Calvinism. Your assurance is not a present relationship with Christ, but a man-made lie of Eternal Security. <BR/><BR/>Paul said believers are DEAD TO SIN and FREED FROM SIN. You have called Paul and John liars, and so we know from whence you speak.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post-77081591489228074252008-08-23T20:32:00.000-07:002008-08-23T20:32:00.000-07:00By the way...which church do you go to...DRAPIER P...By the way...which church do you go to...<BR/><BR/>DRAPIER PENTECOSTAL HOLINESS CHURCH<BR/><BR/>or <BR/><BR/>PENTECOSTAL HOLINESS CHURCH<BR/><BR/>in Eden, North Carolina?Seth McBeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08765679934165890595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post-83969780131069383962008-08-23T18:52:00.000-07:002008-08-23T18:52:00.000-07:00Anonymous...You say you have no list? Well you ju...Anonymous...<BR/><BR/>You say you have no list? Well you just started one...because you said that if a woman spends 45 minutes to an hour before a mirror then she is vain and self-absorbed...<BR/><BR/>So...there is number one on your list...so...how long can a woman put on make up? Your the boss, so how long? <BR/><BR/>By the way...is eating with a sinner and those in darkness fellowship? Uhh...yes...is being friends with those in darkness fellowship? Uhhh...yes again...Paul commanded us to associate with the sinner and Jesus himself ate and partied with them...too bad you will not see this. <BR/><BR/>As far as your excuse with hollywood...let me ask you...<BR/><BR/>Do you ever go to a grocery store? or to a clothing store? Did you know that most of those are owned by sinners and that they will use your money for their evil deeds? <BR/><BR/>And, since you didn't answer my question directly...I will just take it as a "no" that is...that you never sin...<BR/><BR/>Your holiness is derived from your own works and you can't see that God says he doesn't need your works because he isn't served by human hands and that anyone who says that they do not sin is a liar and the truth is not in them (1 John 1).<BR/><BR/><BR/>So...anonymous...<BR/><BR/>You, by saying you do not sin...are a liar and the truth is not in you...thanks for finally showing us what it means to be modern day Pharisee...keep pointing fingers at others and look to yourself as the great holy man/woman that you are...<BR/><BR/>This must be your prayer every night: <BR/><I><BR/>He also told this parable to somewho trusted in themselves that they were righteous,and treated others with contempt: "Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee,standing by himself, prayed thus: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.'But the tax collector,standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, a sinner!'I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted."<BR/><BR/>Luke 18:9-14</I><BR/><BR/>I will stick to looking to Christ and his righteousness and doing my best to immulate him...but when I falter, I will look to him for forgiveness. <BR/><BR/>I would hate to see you counsel people going through struggles in their life. You have no compassion and no mercy or grace when you tell them that they cannot sin or they are a sinner going to hell. <BR/><BR/>You will be rebuked more heavily than anything you have seen here...<BR/><BR/>Your righteous deeds are like dirty tampons in the eyes of Christ...so good luck giving them to him when you are judged...<BR/><BR/>Me..I will not look to my works, but only his. <BR/><BR/>Thank God for the cross of Christ. <BR/><BR/>All glory to him, no glory to me.Seth McBeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08765679934165890595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post-78820036462849312212008-08-23T18:17:00.000-07:002008-08-23T18:17:00.000-07:00Seth said:I never said that Christ, nor I, should ...Seth said:<BR/>I never said that Christ, nor I, should ever participate in the sinner's sin, but we should and are called to be where the sinners are to minister to them. Just because you put extra-biblical mandates on people is your problem...i.e. saying that going to the movies is a sin...that is ridiculous and very legalistic in mindset.<BR/><BR/>Me:<BR/><BR/>That is not the issue and you are engaging in smokescreens. The issue was NEVER, in our discussion whether we should be where sinners are, as I said previously, we go to them, and live around them, yet are separate from them. We do not join them in their sin, you do.<BR/><BR/>So, you do not think it is a sin to give these theaters money--God's money He has given you, to watch people take the Name of the Lord in Vain? You think it is a Christian think to do--to spend God's money watching people sin? Is that how a Christian is to be entertained? Answer please.<BR/><BR/>Seth:<BR/><BR/>Do you believe that you still sin?<BR/><BR/>Me: Another attempt to change the subject. Sin is INEXCUSABLE for a Christian, which implies we don't have to, but have been given everything we need to overcome. Do you believe that with EVERY temptation God provides a way of escape, because He is faithful, according to 1Cor 10:13? Are you saying God is a liar and doesn't provide a way of escape with every temptation, that He is not faithful?<BR/><BR/>Do you believe we are told to put on the whole Armor of God to FALL in the "evil day" or to STAND? And after having done all, to fall or to stand? What happens if we don't put on the WHOLE armor? Wht happens if we do?<BR/><BR/>Do you deny that John said those born of God do not committ sin and CANNOT sin because God's seed is in them? Are you now calling John a liar?<BR/><BR/>Is Paul a liar when He said:<BR/><BR/>Romans:<BR/>6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may<BR/>abound?<BR/>6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer<BR/>therein?<BR/><BR/>Are we DEAD TO SIN? Does Paul expect us to live in it anymore? No. Then why do you?<BR/><BR/>6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.<BR/>6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.<BR/><BR/>Do you "know" what Paul said believers KNOW? That our old man is crucified, the body if sin IS DESTROYED? That we are FREE FROM SIN? Are you saying Paul is a liar or are your Calvinist mentors the liars? The answers are clear.<BR/><BR/>6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have OBEYED from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.<BR/>6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of<BR/>righteousness. <BR/><BR/>You clearly do not believe Paul. I understand Calvinists are deceived. You need the Mighty Baptism with the Spirit, which will purify your heart by faith. Then you will understand what Paul was saying.<BR/><BR/>Seth:<BR/>And, again...if the prophets, Christ and the apostles railed those who were false in doctrine, I will not, nor never hold back against those...if you feel this is unloving..then that is your position, but it definitely is not the bible's.<BR/><BR/>Me:<BR/><BR/>Wrong. Railing is CONDEMNED in Scripture. You are not like Christ or the prophets, they were not fleshly, elitist railers. They were humble, yet bold preachers of the Word of Truth. <BR/><BR/>Seth:<BR/>I would need you to give me your list of wicked things before I could answer this...I am sure you have made a Pharisaical list that people should adhere to. But, without that list I can't answer your question to your liking.<BR/><BR/>Me: <BR/><BR/>You "are sure" I made a "Pharisaical list"? Well you "sure" are wrong. And I see you have played the Pharisee-Card. When all else fails, when one cannot defend his compromise, when one is refuted from Scripture, then its AD HOMINEM TIME! Play the Pharisee card! Slander your opponent. How godly to compare me to those who murdered my Saviour. The inspiration for your comments are from below, not above.<BR/><BR/>You need no "list". David said he will set NO WICKED THING before His eyes. A Child can understand, but not a Calvinist defender of compromise and sin.<BR/><BR/>Seth:<BR/>But...by your defition I wonder if someone having a mirror in their house or brushing their hair is considered vanity. <BR/><BR/>Me:<BR/><BR/>Our motives are important. If we do so to look clean and presentable to a watching world, if we desire to be good ambassadors for Christ, then no. If the motive is so others will be impressed with us, esp the opposite sex, then YES IT IS. One thing I know--no woman need spend 45 minutes to an hour before a mirror putting on make-up(a pretend face) and claim to be godly and modest. That woman is vain and self-absorbed.<BR/><BR/>Seth:<BR/>As far as fellowship with the works of darkness...I will definitely go places to where darkness is to spread the light of the Gospel. As Paul said,<BR/><BR/>Me:<BR/>Of course you will! You will do whatever you want. You will do the opposite of what Paul commanded. But you will not READ CAREFULLY. Paul did not say not to REACH OUT to those in darkness, he said to have NO FELLOWSHIP with the WORKS of darkness. You desire to do that--fellowship with Hellywood. You aren't there to bring the light of the gospel, you are there to spend God's money to watch sin and waste time.<BR/><BR/>Seth:<BR/>So, again, I will end by asking you...do you still sin?<BR/><BR/>Paul said:<BR/>How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post-35391725864658200212008-08-23T17:41:00.000-07:002008-08-23T17:41:00.000-07:00Anonymous: You: Hebrews 7:26 says Christ was SEPAR...Anonymous: <BR/><BR/>You: <BR/><BR/><I>Hebrews 7:26 says Christ was SEPARATE FROM SINNERS, HOLY, UNDEFILED. And you deny this. You cannot understand HOW Christ could minister to sinners and yet be holy and separate from them. This is a problem that reveals you inexperience in walking holy before the Lord, yet being in the midst of sinners bearing light to them. You not knowing how to do this is your problem.</I><BR/><BR/>You have misread my words or I didn't communicate well enough. I never said that Christ, nor I, should ever participate in the sinner's sin, but we should and are called to be where the sinners are to minister to them. Just because you put extra-biblical mandates on people is your problem...i.e. saying that going to the movies is a sin...that is ridiculous and very legalistic in mindset. <BR/><BR/>I am not going to sit here and debate you all day on every text you lay out, but I have a simple question to pose to you to see how we differ...<BR/><BR/>Do you believe that you still sin? <BR/><BR/>And, again...if the prophets, Christ and the apostles railed those who were false in doctrine, I will not, nor never hold back against those...if you feel this is unloving..then that is your position, but it definitely is not the bible's. <BR/><BR/>You again: <BR/><BR/><I>What about all the verses I posted relating to setting no wicked things before our eyes, not beholding vanity, having no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness? Cat got your tongue sonny? </I><BR/><BR/>I would need you to give me your list of wicked things before I could answer this...I am sure you have made a Pharisaical list that people should adhere to. But, without that list I can't answer your question to your liking. <BR/><BR/>As far as not beholding vanity. Again...how far do you want to go with vanity? Do I believe that someone should be so caught up in themselves that they behold themselves more than Christ? Of course not...Do I believe that my definition and your definition of vanity are different...probably...<BR/><BR/>But...by your defition I wonder if someone having a mirror in their house or brushing their hair is considered vanity. <BR/><BR/>As far as fellowship with the works of darkness...I will definitely go places to where darkness is to spread the light of the Gospel. As Paul said, <BR/><BR/><I> I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters,since then you would need to go out of the world. <BR/>1 Corinthians 5:9,10</I><BR/><BR/>So, again, I will end by asking you...do you still sin?Seth McBeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08765679934165890595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post-42841765096448104132008-08-23T13:35:00.000-07:002008-08-23T13:35:00.000-07:00Seth, it is not arrogant, nor is it require a "reb...Seth, it is not arrogant, nor is it require a "rebuke" to inform you I know Calvinism as well as you. For you to believe no one but a Calvinist can understand Calvinism as well as you is the position of the arrogant elitist. TULIP is quite simple to understand, as are its unBiblical ramifications. <BR/><BR/>Hebrews 7:26 says Christ was SEPARATE FROM SINNERS, HOLY, UNDEFILED. And you deny this. You cannot understand HOW Christ could minister to sinners and yet be holy and separate from them. This is a problem that reveals you inexperience in walking holy before the Lord, yet being in the midst of sinners bearing light to them. You not knowing how to do this is your problem. <BR/><BR/>I know you believe your holiness is imputed rather than REAL. Calvinism teaches an imaginary righteousness and holiness, rather than a real one. You just go ahead and trust that you are somehow holy while you live in sin. That is the classic gnostic, antinomian delusion John the Apostle and others spoke against.<BR/><BR/>I said what Paul said in Romans 6--that we are DEAD TO SIN, slaves to righteousness, free from sin, etc. And you again DENY THE BIBLE. I did not say I was sinless. Scripture commands us to NOT SIN-1John 2:1, Ps 4:4. We are to WALK in righteousness, not pretend we are while we practice sin. Calvinism PROMOTES SIN AND DEFEAT in this way, and you have proved it. The Bible says:<BR/><BR/>3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.<BR/>3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.<BR/><BR/>Do you believe John Seth?<BR/><BR/>3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.<BR/><BR/>Notice, the righteous one IS righteous because of what he DOES, not some imputed mythical righteousness that does not conquer sin.<BR/><BR/><BR/>3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.<BR/><BR/>Jesus came to destroy Saan's "works" and in this context, those works are SIN. Did He or didn't He destroy SIN in the believer's life?<BR/><BR/>3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed<BR/>remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.<BR/><BR/>"Cannot sin"? The Calvinist thinks that cannot means inability in John 6 when coming to Christ is mentioned, and yet when the same author uses the same word about Christians and SIN, suddenly "cannot" does not mean CANNOT! Suddenly this word loses its power! <BR/><BR/>Seth, you make foolish accusations. I have PROVEN Calvinism and sin go together by letting you talk. You have proven it, as have hundreds of Calvinists I have read and spoken to. I have not "railed", you have.<BR/><BR/>So, do you believe the Holy One is Israel would sit in Movie Theaters with you, paying to watch blasphemous filth? Yes or No?<BR/><BR/>What about all the verses I posted relating to setting no wicked things before our eyes, not beholding vanity, having no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness? Cat got your tongue sonny?<BR/><BR/>The Bible teaches we are given a new heart, a new nature created in rihteousness and true holiness-Eph 4:17-23, and hence we live out of our spirit, where the Holy Spirit lives. God promised that in the New Covenant, He would cause us to WALK IN IN HIS WAYS. Are you calling God a liar?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post-85097229323079566942008-08-22T18:15:00.000-07:002008-08-22T18:15:00.000-07:00Anonymous. You put so much in here that is just ba...Anonymous. <BR/><BR/>You put so much in here that is just bad exegesis and folly. <BR/><BR/>I don't even really no where to start. To say that I am not supposed to immulate the prophets, Christ and the apostles when I address you, or any other false teacher is really missing the point of what Paul himself says, <BR/><BR/><I>Imitate me as I imitate Christ<BR/>1 Cor 11:1</I><BR/><BR/>So, when you come on here and rail against Calvinism and have the gall to say something as stupid and arrogant as,<BR/><BR/><I> and know your doctrines as well as you</I><BR/><BR/>You should know that you are going to get a sharp rebuke. You are coming on a blog as anonymous and then get mad when we speak out against you and say that we aren't saved, yadda yadda yadda. <BR/><BR/>But, know that I know you are a holiness pentecostal I really pity you even more. To think that you will stand before Christ and when you are asked, "why should you enter" you will point to your holiness is frightening. <BR/><BR/>Do I sin still even though I am in Christ? Yes, sadly I do. But I believe that my Saviour is faithful to forgive me (1 John 1:9). <BR/><BR/>I really can't believe that you lay your head on your pillow and you believe that you are without sin. That really astonishes me to hear that and I am sorry you feel that way. <BR/><BR/>Lastly. <BR/><BR/>Just because you bring up Hebrews 7doesn't mean that you are correct about Jesus not being around sinners, befriending sinners, going to parties with sinners, eating with sinners, etc. The reason it speaks of separation in Hebrews 7 has nothing to do with what you are trying to force the text into saying, it is speaking of being with sinners and yet not sinning. Big difference. <BR/><BR/>And you hit the nail on the head, <BR/><BR/><I>Without holiness no man will see the Lord</I><BR/><BR/>The difference is that I see this holiness as the holiness that was imputed to me at faith and you see this as not only that, but then the rest of your life lived without sin. <BR/><BR/>You walk on very dangerous ground my friend. <BR/><BR/>I think a good read of 2 Corinthians 5:21 would do you some good. <BR/><BR/>If you want to talk about these things I am all up for it...if you are on here to just ramble anonymously you can do that somewhere else. <BR/><BR/>But, I think your biggest error, is not hating Calvinism, but thinking that you are without sin. <BR/><BR/>Please do more study on this subject.Seth McBeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08765679934165890595noreply@blogger.com