tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post2920558884381847412..comments2023-10-25T02:18:43.690-07:00Comments on Contend Earnestly: What Does it Mean to Make a Brother Stumble?Seth McBeehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08765679934165890595noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post-57625946892299867032011-11-04T07:05:25.251-07:002011-11-04T07:05:25.251-07:00This article took the words right out of my heart....This article took the words right out of my heart. I couldn't have said it any better myself. In addition, I hope you don't mind, but I did copy and paste this article to my blog because I believe it's a great article and NEEDS to be spread. I stated in my re-post of your blog that I did not write it and I included a link to your page in the re-post. If you want me to delete it, I will. I just think it's such a vital message! Thanks so much!Jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06330262002920098506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post-69583730832014444372010-09-08T03:39:12.646-07:002010-09-08T03:39:12.646-07:00AWESOME article! I have agonized over these truths...AWESOME article! I have agonized over these truths in Romans 14 for weeks now, as you said, "worrying" almost to the point of paranoia about whether I am causing someone to stumble. Thank YOU for articulating this so well and helping me make sense of all of it so I can be obedient to Jesus, and not men! These truths are so freeing, and Christ exalting and the Holy Spirit used you in my life this morning:).Kyndrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10612295638721154675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post-56920844190219526172009-11-11T17:28:25.556-08:002009-11-11T17:28:25.556-08:00Thank you for thoughtful and very honest reply. T...Thank you for thoughtful and very honest reply. This will be my last response which I am sure you are and will be glad of.<br /><br />You know, when I was a young Christian I was a very good and dedicated student of the word, I studied, went to school and I knew my doctrine! The more I studied, the more I found some of God’s people had things wrong! I would try and try to straighten them out especially when they were teaching weaker brothers. It really pissed me off bothered me when self righteous teachers thought they knew everything and I KNEW they were wrong. They had a few key verses that they always went back to over and over again proving their positions without taking the whole of the bible into account. They acted so smug as if they knew everything taking others down with them! I had to do something! I had to make them understand! I had to save the church! I felt it was my job! I had to do it for God! But God did not reward me for it! It was then that my love for the body and my love for bible study went away. I was frustrated and angery. Why could they not understand? Did they not have the same Holy Spirit? Maybe they were not really saved. I came to all those conclusions and many more. Then I gave up, I quit trying to change them! And God stepped back in. <br /><br />What I learned was I was tying to do the work of the Holy Spirit for them. I was trying to do God’s job! God’s plan is very big and it is different for everyone. For me, God’s training included learning to let the Holy Spirit teach. I could present the truth but the Holy Spirit had to teach. I had to learn that God’s church is not perfect, in fact it is not even close to perfect! In fact, it is made up of sinners that get things wrong. I learned that even I can get things wrong and you can get things wrong and that is part of God’s plan, it’s called growth for me and for you, training in humility. Once I understood this lesson, God returned my love for His people and His word. I have great joy today, even in the face of great error. I do my job. I speak the truth in love and leave God to His job of teaching His people. <br /><br />We will never fully understand all this, this side of heaven! We don’t have too… (I call this faith in God and His righteous plan) The church’s clear understanding of truth is God’s job. He knows churches have doctrinal errors. He knows men get legalistic and teach crap as you say. He knows loving, God fearing, men get things wrong and He still loves Us. Do you love us.<br /><br />One more thing: Through this looooong lesson, I learned that most of those self righteous, over confident, proud, religiously legalistic men really loved the Lord. They were teaching what they believed God wanted them to! <br /><br />I understand you have a deep love for the Lord but I also see a great “pissed off” anger in you for a Christian culture that has for years brought forth nothing but legalism and crap. I think you are striking out in anger! Once you cool off, consider: What would God have you do with this church? Wouldn’t He want you to love the sinners in it? Where can you be of most service? In a perfect church? Or a church of men? (Men have errors and sins and problems!) Why has He trained you as He has? Why has He allowed you to go through this? <br /><br />Good luck in living out your understanding how to live out theology, by continually pointing to Jesus Christ alone and His finished work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post-73568192089017679012009-11-11T09:07:40.878-08:002009-11-11T09:07:40.878-08:00Seth McBee you are a tip of the hat to fat lefthan...Seth McBee you are a tip of the hat to fat lefthanders with giant tattoos everywhere!<br /><br />As Seth would be the first to tell you, he's a sinner saved by grace nothing more. He's also a competitive SOB who knows the Bible and loves to argue. <br /><br />But he's also a good daddy, a devoted husband, a respectful son and a great friend. <br /><br />I learn a lot from reading this blog (though I must admit that a lot of the conversation sails over my head faster than a Stealth bomber flyover).<br /><br />Seth's also one other thing: an average writer. Not a great writer. Not a world-class writer. An average writer. That he is able to communicate so clearly through his blog posts and his comments is proof to me of the involvement of the Holy Spirit. Seth simply couldn't make this stuff up and make it sound so pretty.<br /><br />Okay, enough Seth McBee love for the day.<br /><br />Rock on, brother. Rock on.<br /><br />A different Sethtallmanwritinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11457912145424690616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post-33837023017157405002009-11-11T08:29:32.612-08:002009-11-11T08:29:32.612-08:00Anonymous.
First, thanks for the comment. But, I...Anonymous. <br /><br />First, thanks for the comment. But, I am not sure why you are so fired up that I am the one that is bringing tattoos into the Christian culture or that I am the one causing trouble...if I could do that much with blog posts I would have much more power than I really have. <br /><br />As far as the "weaker brother" you need re-read the post, because I am not going after, nor have I said anything that would concern the actual weaker brother. What I have done is taken on the petty legalists that seek to destroy grace. <br /><br />This is exactly what Christ did. Do these things make me angry? Yes. But, if you notice the only thing that got Jesus really pissed off was self righteous fools who not only relied on their self righteousness, but took others down with them. <br /><br />My family has been closed to spiritually destroyed by moralism and legalism that makes Jesus' yoke heavier than hell, instead of light because of His work. <br /><br />As far as my posts on such subjects, my purpose for this blog has always been consistant and the thesis has always been the same since I started it. Here is the description on technorati and Networked blogs that has never changed: <br /><br /><b><i> A blog dedicated to understanding how to live out theology, by continually pointing to Jesus Christ alone and His finished work. Always questioning tradition according to Scripture and never leaving Scripture out of the discussion. </i></b><br /><br />You will also notice over on the tag cloud that "Christian Living" is the subject that is tagged the most. This is what interests me and this is what I write about. Does this mean I will hit controversial subjects? Yes. Does this mean I will attack a Christian culture that has for years brought forth nothing but legalism and crap? Yes. Does this mean that I am also going through these things? Yes. <br /><br />I test every post to Scripture and if you want to defend your thoughts based on Sola Scriptura by Sola Gratia then go for it. <br /><br />If some of these posts seem angry...it is because they are and if we were face to face, I would be yelling because legalistic crap that has no founding in the gospel pisses me off to no end. <br /><br />I also believe it is a heart issue and one that Christ has been tearing at for years with me and one that he is finally tearing through this religion stuff to get to it and it is freeing and gracious just like he promised. <br /><br />If these posts make people who you call the "weaker brother" angry...I HOPE THEY DO...because they aren't the weaker brother they are the Pharisees. You are defining the weaker brother like modern Christianity does but would be foreign to Paul and the Apostles. <br /><br />I will do what I usually do when I get someone challenging my heart or salvation. I will take it to Christ and pray and ask him to reveal what truths I need to humble myself to and which ones are from the devil. <br /><br />Thanks for commenting and I hope you have a great week.Seth McBeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08765679934165890595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post-44740368813019935352009-11-10T18:48:53.526-08:002009-11-10T18:48:53.526-08:00Since you ask: It is not the tattoo for me that i...Since you ask: It is not the tattoo for me that is the issue, It is the fact that you have made tattoos such an issue. God looks at the inside of the cup. Your tattoos, the color or style of your hair, the color shirt you wear... are not how God sees you! He sees your heart. Having a tattoo is a personal matter and I really have no problem with it. I know many fine Christians with tattoos.<br /><br />You don't just have a tattoo, you have made having a tattoo a Christian cultural issue on the internet in more than one place. You said you brought this issue up on face book too. You have brought it up in Christian circles knowing many would have issues with it. You have taken your weaker brothers on. Is that not true? Honestly?<br /><br />From your posts, I get an attitude of taking the legalistic Christian culture on. You have defined them as wrong, and even hateful Does this reflect your heart? Is this really the purpose behind your posts!<br /><br />I must admit this is a concern that has grown over several of your posts in the last few months, (I guess you could say you have gotten me to check back regularly) along similar lines. <br /><br />Your post on cursing for Jesus was the first post I saw and it really stopped me cold. Now a post on tattoos, I read corse langauge in your posts about things that suck... These are all outward refections of an inward attitude of anger and disrespect of which I have concern for you and I don't even know you. <br /><br />You are using the "liberty defence" and I also believe you think you are doing it for the Glory of God but can you see your anger? I see a great disrespect for much of the Christian culture in your posts. These things may not be offensive to you but I would hope you would understand that they are offensive to many. and your response? Why should I care? It is their issue...<br /><br />I am not saying the inside of your cup is not clean as I can not see it, I am saying I believe there to be room for concern. <br /><br />You have much head knowledge but from these posts my concern is for your heart knowledge. Could lack of heart knowledge cause someone to stumble even if not purposefully? <br /><br />My wish for you is only the best.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post-286169547635108482009-11-10T13:45:53.757-08:002009-11-10T13:45:53.757-08:00Anonymous.
I am still waiting for you to answer t...Anonymous. <br />I am still waiting for you to answer the simple question: <br /><br /><b><i>How does me getting a tattoo make anyone stumble (be destroyed) that wasn't previously impacted by a community of people who tattooed themsevles for the glory of a pagan god?</i></b>Seth McBeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08765679934165890595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post-88381489842966907472009-11-10T13:41:11.972-08:002009-11-10T13:41:11.972-08:00Tam and Zach...thanks.
Anonymous.
I do agree wi...Tam and Zach...thanks.<br /><br />Anonymous. <br /><br />I do agree with your thoughts on our culture being pagan and idolatrous and we could name a sweeping few exemples of how this is the case. But, that won't and shouldn't then discern how we are to then live and take our gospel to the culture perfectly. <br /><br />When dealing with the "weaker brother" we must seek to know which was part of their old self that added to their idolatry and which was and continues to be in many, things that just bug them or make them uncomfortable. <br /><br />For some, it could be their fat belly of idolatry, other it could be lust or love of money. <br /><br />We need to seek these out and be careful. <br /><br />Example. I know a couple that were always wanting to know what I paid for certain items and was always comparing themselves with my "wealth". I could see this was a big issue with them, so I was careful in how I approached them with anything new I bought. It was a stumbling block to them. <br /><br />Does this mean I become a monk? No. It is knowing those you are around and seeking to understand each other and then loving them. <br /><br />For people though who just have an issue with me owning a new Tahoe because they are petty...I don't care, they are being petty and need to know it. <br /><br />Hope this makes sense. <br /><br />Knowing the people you are around, like usual, is key to admonition and edification. <br /><br />Most sweeping "don'ts and do's" just don't reflect reality or the gospel. They reflect a Pharisaical look into the gospel that is supposed to be of grace an not that of works. <br /><br />Thanks for the comments.Seth McBeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08765679934165890595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post-72408900103110061392009-11-10T13:28:28.484-08:002009-11-10T13:28:28.484-08:00Good post... Your comments about the extremes show...Good post... Your comments about the extremes showed good understanding. You were way over on one side of the pendulum previously under a yoke and now you are unyoked and free and have swung the other way... understandable.<br /><br />On the discussion of the weaker brother: You state: “The weaker brother is one who was in an idolatrous nation that sacrificed meat to gods for worship. These things are deeply entrenched in who they are and what they are about. These things identify them with the "old self." “ <br /><br /> Well, we live in an idolatrous nation today. Our culture honors and serves the god of self and being "assertive" putting self first. Our idolatrous culture is deeply entrenched into looking out for number one...the other extreme as you have said: “a culture that says "screw the weaker brother" and do whatever you want without care because you have liberty. (our old self.)” Our weaker brother is the one very entrenched in walking proundly in their old ways and doing “good” as their old man and serving our cultural god, self. Our weaker brother would be someone who has been addicted to worshiping or serving self , or who has a family history of addiction to selfish things. <br /><br />We must be able to recognize a pagan culture before we can help it. 2 Tim 3:1-5 has a lot to say to use to help us understand and even recognize our culture today: We need to be in it and not of it.<br /><br />2 Tim 3:1-5 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!<br /><br />I believe this is the culture God has sent us into, to serve... We need to understand this culture, recognize it temples and sanctuaries… and then remember whom we serve. The god of self is a tricky god! The god of self is hard for us to recognize because we have grown up in the culture.<br /><br />Humbly in His serviceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post-54755974453021083672009-11-10T12:22:17.051-08:002009-11-10T12:22:17.051-08:00wow. right on.
there is nothing to add here. so w...wow. right on.<br /><br />there is nothing to add here. so well said and defined. and done so lovingly.<br /><br />thank you for this!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01000597076912773169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27391906.post-90943499119063613692009-11-10T11:52:18.153-08:002009-11-10T11:52:18.153-08:00GREAT stuff, Seth. As a pastor, I've found th...GREAT stuff, Seth. As a pastor, I've found the best way to deal with people who constantly play the "refrain lest thou offend me" card is to sit down with them and say something like: "Okay,we're not going to use those candles in the service this Sunday. But I'm very concerned that you've been a believer for 25 years and you're still the WEAKER brother. Your faith should be strong by now. So, as a condition of not using the candles, I want to start meeting with you each week to try and get you up near the point where you should be spiritually." Such people are usually incredibly put out that their "weaker brother" routine is actually making people view them as immature weaker Christians, that they stop being so vocal and manipulative about nonessential matters.Zachary Bartelshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13188521505536660574noreply@blogger.com